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  • isvarahparamahkrsnah

    isvarahparamahkrsnah 3:54 pm on November 10, 2020 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: argument, comedy, , , Pratik, reply, standup, Surleen Kaur, truth   

    Stating The Facts 

    Some Indian guy went on my blog and posted an article beneath my article about Surleen Kaur and the ISKCON hypocrisy.
    Clearly this guy was irked by a lot of the facts that I’d stated and he was trying to downplay them.
    I’m going to make a few comments here.

    You appear to profess yourself as a scholar of ISKCON’s philosophy and spiritual teachings; I wish you had the same scholarship on the constitutional rights guaranteed to every Indian.

    I don’t think I ever claimed myself to be a scholar.
    Quite frankly, I don’t care about the constitutional rights of people in India.
    India is a country where rapists go unpunished by the legal system for several years at a time. India is the country where a woman who was raped and killed was cremated in a farm in the middle of the night BY POLICEMEN while her family members were locked in the house BY POLICEMEN.

    You talk of the liberal value that guarantees oneself the right to speak and express freely under Article 19, Clause (1a) of the Indian constitution…

    Where? Where did I mention the Indian constitution in my article?
    This guy, let me get his name now – oooooh yes! We’re going deep in there now! This guy named Pratik thinks I’m an Indian living in India who is governed by the Indian constitution. Therefore he thinks I give a crap about his Indian constitution.

    Don’t you think such dim-witted blabber breaches the constitutional rights of a believer and, in turn, disrupts social harmony? If not, then either you are a hypocrite yourself, or you just don’t understand the law in its entirety.

    Me? A hypocrite? ohoho! ohohohoho ya yeet! You must’ve confused me with one of your corporate ISKCON gurus.
    Here’s the thing about the law – I don’t give a crap about the law. I’m an anarchist. And since you seem to be fairly aquainted with ISKCON to write such a long ass article beneath my article, I’ll have you know that the laws in Kali Yuga are written by sudras and enforced by sudras. They don’t mean jack.
    There’s only one law around here – My law. And my law states that you’re a criminal for opposing my facts with useless arguments. Therefore these comments will now be published in a separate article just for your sake.

    Why shall a comedian’s right to freedom of speech and being offensive outclass a religious person’s right to get offended?

    As a religious person, I did not find Surleen’s joke offensive.
    In your case, you’re making arguments as a religious person who wants to hide the facts under the rug because if everyone knows about it, people will stop giving donations and joining your gestapo movement.

    Now, let’s just answer a few questions raised by you and invalidate your baseless arguments one by one:

    What’d I just say? FACTS. I stated the facts. You viewed them as baseless arguments because you clearly aren’t smart enough to distinguish facts from fiction.

    1.You ask, “And why would anyone be offended when they are nowhere close to even being members of a religious organization?”
    Ans: FYI – The person who has intended to take legal action is a devout ISKCON member, Radharamn Das, Vice-president, ISKCON, West Bengal.

    Boo hoo! I wrote this article to comment on the multitudes of Indians who were crying and whining about it on the internet.

    2. You say, “Standup comedy is about delivering blunt truths in the form of witty insults.
    Nobody else speaks the truth anymore. Not the politicians, not the government, not the teachers, not even the religious people.”
    Counter – If I were to believe that you and your beloved comedians speak the truth, then I rather need to disown the India’s constitution and surrender unto you and your will. I just don’t understand why anyone would think that he has got a monopoly over the truth. It’s for the courts to decide what’s the truth and what’s not, and we have a due legal process for that.

    Please do! Me and my will have more sense than your Indian constitution.
    The truth is universal. When I speak the truth, I’m speaking for the entire human species. That’s how truth works.
    The courts? What courts?
    Anarchists don’t give two craps about the courts.
    The due legal process is flawed. Where’s the due legal process for all the rapists in India? This fool wants to talk about due legal process for a comedian who cracked a joke about religion.
    This is why India is a crappy country.

    Counter – You claimed that you are an ISKCON follower for two decades and a scholar of its literature. Now, I have reasonable facts to doubt your claims. … To me, you come across as a self-proclaimed ISKCON scholar who’s oblivious to a lot of facts about its history … I don’t know what books you are reading, but I, for one, can assure you that they are certainly not in correspondence with ISKCON’s teachings.

    I’m not just a follower. I served in the altar for about 3 years when I was just a teenager.
    That’s right! I was helping the pujari do the night dressing every single evening. And I’ve done numerous services that I don’t need to tell you.
    You don’t have reasonable facts. You’ve got unreasonable nuts. And I’ve got a good mind to come stomping.
    I never proclaimed to be an ISKCON scholar. I’m just the guy with the balls to state the facts about the organization without licking boots and being a yes-man.
    You know absolutely nothing about me. Not that I’d want to tell you anything about me either. You’re irrelevant. You’re a nobody.

    The books I’m reading currently are Srimad Bhagavatam and Bhagavad Gita As It Is – both translated by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
    Of course they’re not in correspondence with ISKCON’s teachings. Do people in ISKCON read Srila Prabhupada’s books any more? Or do they just go out and shove them into people’s faces and force them to buy them?
    So if we are going to discuss ISKCON’s teachings, then clearly they’ve come up with their own versions of teachings which include silencing the truth and posting articles with useless arguments beneath articles stating the facts.

    Counter – The one thing that Srila Prabhupada and everyone in the Gaudiya Vaishnavism lineage emphasized before leaving this material world was to propagate the philosophy of the Hare Krishna movement and share this eternal love of God with others through the distribution of books, Sunday feasts, and Sankirtan. On the one hand, you totally disregard that core concept of this religious congregation; on the other hand, you quote Srila Prabhupada on how he asked his disciples not to engage in any mundane activities. At this point, I really need to doubt your credibility as a Hare Krishna.

    The core concept is flawed in it’s implementation.
    Book distributors, even in the early 80’s, used unfavorable and sometimes illegal methods to sell books. They just wanted to get the books out by any means. I don’t think that’s what Srila Prabhupada had in mind. If you forcefully push people to buy your books, you’re ruining the image of the very organization you’re trying to advocate.
    Is it just me or are some idiots in ISKCON too dumb to understand the basics?
    Sankirtana hasn’t been happening since Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance.
    Back in the early days, devotees used to go out for Harinama Sankirtana every single day!
    Has that been happening over the last two decades? Absolutely not! Most temples haven’t had Harinama Sankirtana in years. The only Harinama they’ve had is during Rath Yatra festivals.
    And since you’re in India, I’ll have you know that ISKCON temples in the rest of the world have deteriorated even faster than ISKCON in India.
    You’re talking about Sankirtana – many temples don’t even have someone to sing Gaura aarti in the evening. That’s the state of ISKCON for the past few years. And I know that because I’ve sang aartis by myself for several weeks on a stretch.

    I don’t need to prove my credibility to you. The facts have been stated. You’re the only one who had a problem with them.
    Matter of fact, you should be the one proving your credibility to me and the rest of the internet. Who in the blue hell are you?

    Counter – You premised your entire argument insinuating that because some leaders of ISKCON were caught and have admitted to watching porn, therefore, the entire ISKCON community shall not get offended by the misrepresentation and stigmatization of its congregation by these so-called veracious, unerring, and infallible comedians. Your argument is essentially based on a hasty generalization, and therefore, it is an informal logical fallacy because it has got a reasoning error and lacks logical consistency.

    If I’m not offended by the truth, why are you offended? Are you a more credible congregation member than me? I don’t think so!
    I’m not arguing. You’re the one having arguments with me!
    I’m stating facts backed by sound logic.
    You’re the one with reasoning error because your mind has been clouded by the gestapo ideology of censoring the truth.

    If the freedom of speech is what that matters to these comedians, then why make jokes disproportionately targeting a particular sect or religion?

    You clearly don’t watch standup comedy at all.
    There’s jokes about every religious sect by various standup comedians.
    Surleen cracked the ISKCON joke because she’s an Indian.
    I bet if she cracked a joke about Catholic priests doing what Kirtanananda Swami did, you wouldn’t have a problem with that, now would you?

    I don’t care personally what these ignorants have to say in their capacity as long as it’s a private conversation. However, I strongly object to them using social platforms to stigmatize a sect in the public domain.

    Well well well, we’ve got another gestapo officer here.
    You should get a medal of honor from the GBC and promoted to a high ranking management position.

    By the way, have you met Hanuman Das? He spends a lot more time exposing ISKCON than I do.
    I’d love to see you try and intimidate him.
    LastingImpression

    By the way, Internet sources does not contain first-hand information. Therefore, they should be treated with a certain degree of scrutiny and distrust. It might look credible on the face of it but it could be misleading and spurious too.

    I don’t know what your sources are, but I’m sure they all come from ISKCON Communications office.

    My sources are very credible.
    I am also very credible.
    Welcome to the uncensored internet, where the truth can’t be hidden and the facts are published regardless of the crying whining idiots.

    However, you seem to turn a blind eye towards a religious person’s right to get offended under Article 25 of the constitution and Section 295 (a) of the IPC.

    I don’t think your constitution, articles and sections will be able to protect your rights here.
    If I wasn’t so busy right now, I’d push a dozen articles detailing the nonsense going on in ISKCON right now.
    But I have neither the interest nor the time to pursue such a useless endeavor.

    Blasphemy is a criminal offense in India punishable either with imprisonment for a term that may extend to three years or with a fine or both.

    Unfortunately, India doesn’t have that jurisdiction with the rest of the world.
    Pretty soon, I may join Hanuman Das and host a similar website just to piss you off.

    Btw, what’s the punishment for censoring the truth and suppressing obvious facts by a bunch of sudras in a gestapo movement?
    I’ll be sure to look it up in my book of Canakya Niti.

    I hope you will do a better research next time before putting forward arguments full of fallacies.

    I hope you’re ready for disappointment.
    ‘Cause I’m just getting started.

     
  • isvarahparamahkrsnah

    isvarahparamahkrsnah 8:39 am on July 17, 2020 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , comedy, , , , , , ,   

    Surleen Kaur, ISKCON, and The Indian Hypocrisy 

    I am a Krsna Conscious person.

    It is no longer appropriate to talk about one’s religion on the internet. I think that trend began somewhere in 2015, and has become predominant in 2020.
    But I think, if you identify yourself as a religious person, then you shouldn’t be ashamed of it, or hide it from others.

    Religious people should be treated the same as atheists.
    Everybody loved Tom Cruise until it was revealed that he was a Scientologist. And then, he got a lot of hate for it. Even though, I haven’t seen him talk about Scientology to others or preach to them about it.

    Almost every religion in the world has a philosophy of preaching to the others. And each one has statements that denote that the followers of the said religion are morally and intellectually superior to those who aren’t.

    This is why people hate religion.
    Nobody wants to be looked down upon or treated as an inferior human being.

    Therefore, I have certain rules regarding religion. The first one being that I do not preach to others.
    This actually goes against the philosophy of every religion. They want their followers to preach to the non-believers. They want their numbers to increase.
    But I don’t want to preach. I don’t care about followers. I want to practice my devotional service in peace.

    This is the same principle that I apply regarding privacy, open source software, Linux and so on.
    I do talk about religion, privacy, freedom and other things that interest me in my personal space. Those who want to learn about it can come. Those who don’t can stay away.

    I went to a Catholic school. At the same time, I started visiting a nearby ISKCON temple and have done so for two decades, regardless of where I was.

    There’s a certain standup comedian, Surleen Kaur, who made a joke about pornography and ISKCON. A lot of Indians didn’t take this very kindly and so they decided to cancel her. Plus ISKCON wanted to sue her and the Shemaroo company was forced to wipe the footage from the internet.

    Now I believe in freedom of speech and stating the facts.
    I also happen to know several ISKCON leaders who were caught watching porn and/or have admitted to doing so. The information is out on the internet. Before trying to massacre a standup comedian for some lousy joke, perhaps you could do a little research on the subject.

    And while I’m on the subject, have any of the Indians crying for Surleen’s blood read any of ISKCON’s literature?
    Yeah, I’ve spent several years studying the scriptures so I happen to know a few things these ignorant fools don’t.
    What happens if someone reads the Bhagavad Gita As It Is, and finds the part where Srila Prabhupada writes that the materialistic men are living just like cats and dogs? Should or shouldn’t people be offended by that?
    Should anyone sue ISKCON for having scriptures that state the facts? Or do those cease to be facts the moment people are offended? Should it be called blasphemy?

    The truth remains the truth. It doesn’t matter if it’s some upcoming standup comedian saying it, or a highly venerable saint saying it.

    How many Indians have read ISKCON’s books? How many have studied the philosophy and adopted the lifestyle prescribed in the Vedas?
    How many Indians have stopped drinking tea, chewing tobacco and eating foodstuff containing onions, garlic and mushrooms? How many have been chanting 16 rounds daily? How many Indians have given up their material desires only to serve The Supreme Personality of Godhead?

    As far as I know, Indians are the most materialistic people on the planet. So much, that even religion has become a booming business in India.
    Since Srila Prabhupada’s departure, even ISKCON has turned into a business in many cities, with all the sweet shops and restaurants with karmi chefs, with gift shops selling dior perfume and some tribal wristbands from Africa, and so on.
    Has anyone looked into this?
    Has any Indian walked past the gift shop in an ISKCON center, looked at the different brands of perfumes and wondered, “Wait a minute! Are they selling Dior perfume here?”
    How about the restaurants and sweet shops? Has anyone gone to the kitchen in the back to see if the chef is an ISKCON devotee or some karmi guy paid to cook?

    Has anyone listened to Srila Prabhupada’s conversations where he clearly said devotees aren’t supposed to engage in mundane welfare activities?
    That’s right. Srila Prabhupada never authorised any program to feed school children all across the country. He never wanted ISKCON to be recognized as some NGO engaged in feeding the poor and helping the needy. I think Mother Teresa was pretty good at that.

    A lot of Indians simply know ISKCON as a religious organization that feeds the hungry. They know about the Hare Krsna Maha Mantra, and that’s pretty much it.
    No concrete philosophical understanding, no interest in following the Varnasrama way of life, and a surprisingly huge shame in wearing dhoti and tilaka.
    So the people may say they’re proud of their culture and heritage. But if you asked them to dress according to their culture, they’d call it old-fashioned and outdated.
    How many Indian girls still wear saris everyday? Apart from the special events, festivals and occasions, they still dress in western fashion.

    The way I see it, the majority of Indians have drifted towards a more modern western lifestyle with more openness and freedom.
    So why are they inflamed when some woman cracks a lame joke about religion and pornography?
    Do they not support freedom of speech?
    And why would anyone be offended when they are nowhere close to even being members of a religious organization?
    I’ve been a regular in ISKCON for two decades but I haven’t been offended. Neither should anyone else who’s heard standup comedy before.
    Standup comedy is about delivering blunt truths in the form of witty insults.
    Nobody else speaks the truth anymore. Not the politicians, not the government, not the teachers, not even the religious people.

    ISKCON has had a history of surpressing the facts and pushing everything under the rag.
    The organization has managed to cover up decades of child abuse, corruption, rape and even murder.
    Even the sannyasis, who are supposed to be the top leaders, men equal to God, without a taint in character, have been found to be involved in such henious activities.
    And this is a problem that plagues all religious sects – the Christians, Scientologists, Muslims and everybody else.
    Non of these religious groups wants to acnowledge these activities in their history. If you ask them, they just brush it aside and call it nonsense or hateful comments or whatever.
    Why can’t people acknowledge the facts?
    This is the Kali Yuga.
    There are no perfect human beings.
    But, there seem to be an awful lot of pretentious scumbags who are even willing to kill to hide their nefarious activities from being discovered.

    If everyone could just stop with the hypocrisy, that’d be great.
    I don’t want to live in a world where people can’t crack a joke without offending somebody. I don’t want to live in a world where comedians have to censor themselves to stop offending people.
    I believe in freedom. This is one of those freedoms. I should be free to speak the truth. You should be free to be offended and go crap yourself.

     
    • Pratik 1:30 pm on November 9, 2020 Permalink | Reply

      Well, I strongly disagree. The arguments made to justify the pernicious behavior of these comedians seem highly preposterous to me. They are fallacious and essentially lack a sound factual, constitutional, and logical basis. You appear to profess yourself as a scholar of ISKCON’s philosophy and spiritual teachings; I wish you had the same scholarship on the constitutional rights guaranteed to every Indian.

      You talk of the liberal value that guarantees oneself the right to speak and express freely under Article 19, Clause (1a) of the Indian constitution. However, you tend to forget that the right to freedom of speech and expression is not absolute. It is subject to Clause (2), “Nothing in Clause (1a) of this Article shall affect the operation of any existing law, or prevent the state from making any law, relating to libel, slander, defamation, sedition, or any other matter which offends against decency or morality or undermines the security of, tends to overthrow, the state.”

      Moreover, Article 25 guarantees a religious person the freedom of conscience and the right to profess, practice freely, and propagate its religion. So, if a comedian crosses the line to make a few idiots laugh while hurting the sentiments of thousands, if not millions, of devout believers and slander their sect, then the believers are entitled to drag him/her through the courts. Don’t you think such dim-witted blabber breaches the constitutional rights of a believer and, in turn, disrupts social harmony? If not, then either you are a hypocrite yourself, or you just don’t understand the law in its entirety. Why shall a comedian’s right to freedom of speech and being offensive outclass a religious person’s right to get offended?

      Now, let’s just answer a few questions raised by you and invalidate your baseless arguments one by one:

      1.You ask, “And why would anyone be offended when they are nowhere close to even being members of a religious organization?”

      Ans: FYI – The person who has intended to take legal action is a devout ISKCON member, Radharamn Das, Vice-president, ISKCON, West Bengal.

      2. You say, “Standup comedy is about delivering blunt truths in the form of witty insults.
      Nobody else speaks the truth anymore. Not the politicians, not the government, not the teachers, not even the religious people.”

      Counter – If I were to believe that you and your beloved comedians speak the truth, then I rather need to disown the India’s constitution and surrender unto you and your will. I just don’t understand why anyone would think that he has got a monopoly over the truth. It’s for the courts to decide what’s the truth and what’s not, and we have a due legal process for that.

      3.You say, “ISKCON has had a history of surpressing the facts and pushing everything under the rag.
      The organization has managed to cover up decades of child abuse, corruption, rape and even murder.
      Even the sannyasis, who are supposed to be the top leaders, men equal to God, without a taint in character, have been found to be involved in such henious activities.”

      Counter – You claimed that you are an ISKCON follower for two decades and a scholar of its literature. Now, I have reasonable facts to doubt your claims. In the late ’80s, when ISKCON was going through its worst phase with these allegations and the people involved were convicted, its GBC not only acknowledged the wrongdoing on the part of the convicts but also promptly took initiatives and established subcommittees like the ISKCON Resolve and ISKCON Child Protection Office. It’s all mentioned on their websites, have a look! To me, you come across as a self-proclaimed ISKCON scholar who’s oblivious to a lot of facts about its history. FYI – Sannyasis are never supposed to be “men equal to God,” they will always remain servants of God according to the teachings of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, the philosophical foundation of ISKCON. I don’t know what books you are reading, but I, for one, can assure you that they are certainly not in correspondence with ISKCON’s teachings.

      4. You say, “Therefore, I have certain rules regarding religion. The first one being that I do not preach to others. This actually goes against the philosophy of every religion. They want their followers to preach to the non-believers. They want their numbers to increase. But I don’t want to preach. I don’t care about followers. I want to practice my devotional service in peace.” Has anyone listened to Srila Prabhupada’s conversations where he clearly said devotees aren’t supposed to engage in mundane welfare activities? That’s right. Srila Prabhupada never authorised any program to feed school children all across the country. He never wanted ISKCON to be recognized as some NGO engaged in feeding the poor and helping the needy. I think Mother Teresa was pretty good at that.”

      Counter – The one thing that Srila Prabhupada and everyone in the Gaudiya Vaishnavism lineage emphasized before leaving this material world was to propagate the philosophy of the Hare Krishna movement and share this eternal love of God with others through the distribution of books, Sunday feasts, and Sankirtan. On the one hand, you totally disregard that core concept of this religious congregation; on the other hand, you quote Srila Prabhupada on how he asked his disciples not to engage in any mundane activities. At this point, I really need to doubt your credibility as a Hare Krishna.

      Furthermore, he might not have authorized any mid-day meal program himself for the school-going children, but he surely did instruct his disciples that no child or, for that matter, no one within 10 miles of the temple’s vicinity should remain hungry. And the philosophical understanding is that prasadam helps in restoring one’s love for God. What better way to share and reinstate this eternal bliss with the conditioned souls than to offer them sanctified food, free from karma, during a very impressionable age? Of course, he did not want ISKCON to be an NGO; after all, it’s a religious congregation. FYI: Mother Teresa’s Missionaries of Charity is not an NGO. It’s a globally recognized Catholic religious congregation.

      5. You say “Now I believe in freedom of speech and stating the facts.
      I also happen to know several ISKCON leaders who were caught watching porn and/or have admitted to doing so. The information is out on the internet. Before trying to massacre a standup comedian for some lousy joke, perhaps you could do a little research on the subject.”

      Counter – You premised your entire argument insinuating that because some leaders of ISKCON were caught and have admitted to watching porn, therefore, the entire ISKCON community shall not get offended by the misrepresentation and stigmatization of its congregation by these so-called veracious, unerring, and infallible comedians. Your argument is essentially based on a hasty generalization, and therefore, it is an informal logical fallacy because it has got a reasoning error and lacks logical consistency.

      Just think, why can’t those devoted members, who do not engage themselves in such profane acts, who duly follow the regulative principles as prescribed in the Vedas and Upanishads, have the right to be offended with these outrageous statements made in the guise of being witty? If the freedom of speech is what that matters to these comedians, then why make jokes disproportionately targeting a particular sect or religion?

      I don’t care personally what these ignorants have to say in their capacity as long as it’s a private conversation. However, I strongly object to them using social platforms to stigmatize a sect in the public domain. It leads to intolerance and disruptive behavior of the masses towards the denomination in a subtle way. By the way, Internet sources does not contain first-hand information. Therefore, they should be treated with a certain degree of scrutiny and distrust. It might look credible on the face of it but it could be misleading and spurious too.

      Nonetheless, there are bad apples in every organization, may it be religious or non-religious. Therefore, the question is whether or not it is fair to generalize it and defame the organization as a whole because of the actions of a few shams? In the West, Catholic churches have had incidents of the same sorts. Later, Vatican took cognizance of it and established policies to avoid such disgraceful acts. You have a biased viewpoint which only addresses the right of freedom of speech and expression of a comedian. However, you seem to turn a blind eye towards a religious person’s right to get offended under Article 25 of the constitution and Section 295 (a) of the IPC. Blasphemy is a criminal offense in India punishable either with imprisonment for a term that may extend to three years or with a fine or both.

      6. You ask, “What happens if someone reads the Bhagavad Gita As It Is, and finds the part where Srila Prabhupada writes that the materialistic men are living just like cats and dogs? Should or shouldn’t people be offended by that?
      Should anyone sue ISKCON for having scriptures that state the facts? Or do those cease to be facts the moment people are offended? Should it be called blasphemy?”

      Counter – Well, you may argue that Srila Prabhupada’s words are offensive to the atheistic class of men. However, any reasonable lawyer cannot establish those statements as offensive under Section 153 (a) of the IPC on the grounds of promoting hatred, ill-will, and hostility between different religious, racial, language, or regional groups or castes or communities. That’s because Srila Prabhupada made a broad statement, and he did not specifically label any atheistic organization like FIRA as men living just like cats and dogs. One has to lay out a rationale for establishing its offensiveness. While the comedian, Surleen Kaur, specifically mentions ISKCON and slanders it with faulty generalization. I hope you will do a better research next time before putting forward arguments full of fallacies.

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