ASUPD’s firearms training is far from “professional”

In the past, we’ve briefly mentioned some issues surrounding ASUPD’s firearms training unit, and its professional standards (we are discussing the unit as a whole). The problems surrounding firearms training at ASUPD have been already extensively documented within the department, through both formal and informal complaints. Unfortunately, the issues at hand have yet to be even broached within the department, and are still ongoing.

This list is by no means conclusive, but touches on the major issues department personnel have with ASUPD’s firearms training.

  1. ASUPD’s line-level officers must utilize an outdoor range, while ASUPD’s firearms instructors are allowed to utilize Tempe PD’s indoor range.
    • This is self-explanatory. Line-level officers have to suffer through 110+ degree weather and no shade to qualify, while the firearms instructors (and occasionally, an officer tight with the firearms crew) use Tempe PD’s indoor, air conditioned range.
  2. ASUPD’s outdoor range has no restroom facilities, no access to water or shade. 
    • The outdoor range in the summer time is like being in hell. It’s dirty, very hot, and very dry. Have to use the restroom? Hope using the open desert as your toilet is acceptable. One officer previously filed a complaint with OSHA regarding the lack of bathroom facilities. Did we mention the broken glass and garbage scattered around the range as well?desert
  3. The range is a very long commute for nearly all of ASUPD’s officers…and that commute doesn’t come with reimbursement for mileage (most officers use their POV).
  4. ASUPD’s officers aren’t provided ammo for practice before qualification.
    • Officers already don’t make very much, but having them bear the additional burden of paying for their own ammo to practice is ludicrous. Tempe PD’s officers make more than ASUPDs’, AND they still receive a box of ammo for training purposes per month.
  5. Some members of the firearms staff create a hostile training environment on the range.
    • While handling a firearm, the last thing an officer needs to be concerned about is being treated like a scolded child. Even in emails sent out to members of the department, some of the firearms staff come across as condescending and rude. Qualification is already stressful enough–you shouldn’t be assing up your employees BEFORE they even get to the range.
  6. The firearms training unit is similiar to a fraternity!
    • It is essentially a “good ole boy’s club”, and if you are not part of it, you are treated like an outsider. The mission and focus should be on making sure all your officers can successfully qualify, reinforcing good habits, emphasizing marksmanship…ie, TRAINING! The mark of a good instructor is measured by the officers that succeed.hay

ASUPD Firearms Frolic

These pictures are NOT indicative of a “professional” firearms unit, and convey how serious some of the instructors take their jobs.

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68 thoughts on “ASUPD’s firearms training is far from “professional”

  1. fixmycorruptpd says:

    Hahahahaha, who let the frat boys into the PD? Maybe if they knew what they were doing qualifications would go up instead of down. Non-qualifiers seem to go qualify without issue when other agency firearms instructors are with them.

    Is that Janda holding his penis over Aston’s head? That says so much. Priceless.

  2. Supervisor Facepalm says:

    You’re looking at part of the infamous clique in action wearing the Arizona State University Police firearms training uniforms with badges. This was done on Gila River Police tribal land who gave permission to our department to shoot there. It looks like it’s time to boot the Blue Team software and pull IA numbers for everyone involved. Another ethics test they failed before.

  3. WheresMy907 says:

    If the firearms club treated everyone with professionalism, respect, fairness, and were generally nice guys instead of pretentious, stuck up, dicks these photos probably wouldn’t ever have ended up on here for everyone to see.

  4. popo39machine says:

    These insiders can do whatever the fuck they want with each other, to other employees, and nobody gives a shit. These guys and their commander friends are holding the keys to the rape dungeon so responsible oversight is a joke.

    If any non-insider types were found on the internet in photos like this acting like jaggoffs in department uniforms they would get slammed with internal investigations and drummed out of the department with bogus paper on this or something else.

    There is no oversight and responsible, ethical leadership when you and your friends control a state sponsored agency. Who cares you ran it into the ground as long as your bosses keep giving you blank checks, awards, artificially high evals, when they should have been looking for accountability.

  5. smokey261 says:

    For every lowering of standards they have for one another they raise them for everyone else. The guy on the far left posing like a chick in the first picture and in the second picture, “Sgt Ladyboy.” chased his buddy Commander Schicilone around the ASUPD Tempe police station with his gloved hand holding his own excrement.

    Way to go. Make sure you generate some Internal Affairs paperwork for this guy. They unplugged the fair and ethical standards rule a long time ago. People have been fired for less.

    • yurhuckleberry says:

      Yes, Sgt Ladyboy is the biggest hypocrite when it comes to standards and treatment. He has so many issues with race, being rascist, but as one of their hatchetmen he slides under the bar like a snake.

  6. Calltaker says:

    I’m a former dispatcher and another ASU employee told me of this blog. Everything I read on this Blog confirms to me I made the right decision to leave. These clowns will never change it is all about them and what they can take for their benefit. If I recall correctly, all of them went other police agencies and were failures. I assume they quickly learned they had to work and they were held accountable. They ran back to their buddies.
    These pictures reflect ASU PD perfectly. A group of male officers who are incompetent. I often heard the female ASU officers complain about the range, no bathrooms and it was like clowns talking down to them.

    • Getitright says:

      You’re right, no other agency would put up with their shit, so they made ASUPD their toilet. If you’re wondering why ASUPD is broke with no staffing, no morale, then take a good look at the assholes in these photos.

    • Twocents says:

      They can’t play their beta male games at other police departments. That shit doesn’t fly with real men. As you can see Sergeant A is comfortable exploring his inner party girl and wants to be dominated by a stronger male. What’s that saying about the two things that come out of Texas?

  7. Seguridad perdido says:

    Oh this is funny. How long before these photos make their way throughout the law enforcement community? I’m just glad they were able to keep their clothes on until the camera went away and the hazing of new pledges began. I didn’t see any sheep in these photos, so that’s good.

    • yurhuckleberry says:

      Not long. People entirely unrelated to the department are asking about the department based on what they read on the blog.

  8. Guerro says:

    The most disturbing part about the picture of the firearms crew is the fact that the SUPERVISOR (Orr) is participating and also condoning this behavior.

    It is one thing to take pictures like this in civilian clothes…but when you wear your UNIFORM and act like this, it supports the conclusion the poster made which is this type of behavior is acceptable, and the rules don’t apply to certain people.

    • Getitright says:

      Karma is…a bunch of uneducated homophobes caught on film appearing in university police department uniforms posing like chicks, grabbing cock, and acting the fool on display for everyone everywhere.

    • yurhuckleberry says:

      Like prison rapists they do what they want to whoever they want knowing complaints go nowhere, there is no professional standard here. That’s why the chief and university management have no intention of addressing department personnel issues other than hiring more people who will soon quit in disgust.

  9. DL500unit says:

    Well if it isn’t “Orr’s Boys”…the clique, firearms fraternity, or just band of jerkoffs responsible for driving off scores of police officers from ASUPD for years. Does anyone know who took these photos? Command is part of and in bed with this group, so guess what’s going to happen? Nothing, they are too busy starting bogus IA’s on employees trying to leave as usual. Perhaps some of those should be published, made public, so the public and other PD agencies can pass judgement on those responsible for running a police department like a circus side show fraternity.

    • Twocents says:

      Publish every misdeed. You will have a plenty of work to do. From what I have heard the university leadership will have to be shamed into doing the right thing.

    • BurningheapofFail says:

      This is a good point. Start publishing IA’s so the community at large can judge if they were warranted. Officers from other departments wont believe what they’re seeing and it will let them know what they’re getting into prior to them coming here.

  10. Justanotherdispensible50 says:

    Ok, we have had people fired for less so lets see what happens to the ASUPD Clown Posse. The only thing missing is one of the Escape clown cars. Thanks for not posting the nudes and the A2M shots, you did us all a favor. Looks like Commander Orr (far right) and Sergeant Osborne (far left in bottom shot)forgot the safety, the release word, oops.

  11. Guess Who says:

    It’s been touched on in some of the other posts but for those not on the inside with ASUPD the officers pictures are (Top picture left to right) Sgt M.A, Sgt P.O, Ofc M.J, and commander B.O. There are two line level supervisors and one commander who is in charge of entire campus. You would think there was someone there with enough common sense to keep everyone in line when they’re being photographed in uniform. Another example of how those who are immune from discipline act as if they are untouchable.

  12. BurningheapofFail says:

    On this episode of Girls Gone Wild… Wait a minute I have an audio transcript, Aston, “Hey YALL disrespect me, call me an ugly woman, make me feel cheap, now punch me in the face. Janda, it’s only gay if the balls touch! Pam! Get the money shot!”

    Nobody gives a shit if you’re Bi or gay. They do care if you’re a giant asshole. Chances are if you guys were professional, treated coworkers fairly, with respect, you wouldnt have ended up on the internet making us look like an agency ran by shitheads.

  13. Aotimes4 says:

    The question I have is are those 1911’s department approved?

    • theintegrityreport says:

      All personal (non-department) weapons are approved by the Rangemaster. If you’re a firearms instructor, it is not a stretch to assume one could have (reasonably) any weapon approved for duty.

    • yurhuckleberry says:

      The commander in the far right is the guy in charge of the infamous failed firearms program. They approve whatever they want. Keep in mind all of these firearms people have the EXPERT marksman pin for their uniforms but never qualified in front of the troops, just their firearms fraternity brothers.

  14. OneFlewOverTheCuckoo'sPD says:

    You four clowns are disgusting; your arrogance comes through loud and clear!

    Commander William Orr, you think this is funny? What will be funny is when someone finally cans your ass for allowing this to occur and being part of it.

    Chief John Pickens, Assistant Chief James Hardina, and Assistant Chief Michael Thompson, when are you going to initiate an IA? I won’t hold my breath!

    • yurhuckleberry says:

      They established a record of not doing IA’s for serious issues when their protected flunkies are involved. Remember this department does ridiculous IA’s on non-protected members, like a caste system.

      Maybe this will be another one of those faux investigations done months after the fact miraculously exonerating everyone no matter what evidence is available, but not considered. Otherwise known as lying by ommission.

    • Twocents says:

      Clowns sums them up.

    • Embudo says:

      ComeOnNow says: “I concede there are some strong personalities on the team, but I don’t think there is a systematic approach to try to get people fired.”

      Translation: “I concede there are some BULLIES on the team, but I don’t think there is a systematic approach to try to get people fired.”

  15. ComeOnNow says:

    As someone who hasn’t had issues with the firearms staff like those mentioned in the post, I think a little more specificity would help clarify how these guys act condescending, treat people like outsiders, scold people like children, etc. What did they actually do? I heard of a couple incidents where people were doing unsafe things like rapid firing, but you should expect to be scolded for being wantonly unsafe.

    The post makes reference to the instructors trying to weed people out. I can’t think of a single person who has been fired for failing to qualify, but maybe I just haven’t been here long enough. Also, it seems like it’s the same group of people who fail to qualify initially, but after receiving remedial training qualify on later attempts. At some point you have to put the onus on the shooter.

    I would be interested to get the whole story about the photos. Did they post them somewhere else or how did they end up here?

    • Really? says:

      Even though your comment seems like an attempt to fish for information, I will humor you with a response.

      The firearms staff has treated many ASUPD employees like crap. When Stan B (a former DPS firearms instructor) became an instructor at ASUPD, he was constantly treated like garbage. These guys would have ‘meetings’ and forget to include him, barely speak to him, drag their feet on giving him the firearms unit uniform, etc. Mind you, he was a VETERAN officer for DPS with far more experience than any of the firearms guys, and they were awful to him.

      Additionally, while on the range, some of the firearms guys are so quick to boot people out…refusing to recount targets, trying to “catch” people cheating, etc…basically creating a hostile training environment. Also, Orr has been known to sends out harshly worded emails to employees informing them of training.

      You can think of a person who has been fired for not qualifying? I seem to recall a few years ago the Chief beginning the termination process for two officers who were having trouble qualifying; it wasn’t until the reread the policy and found out Pickens was citing an expired policy that they managed to retain their positions. I also believe that Stan B. was the only firearm instructor that worked with one of the officers and made him a proficient shooter.

      As for the pictures? Why does it matter where they came from? Does it make their message less valid?

    • Twocents says:

      Sir, Do you want names, dates, times, written statements and buccal swabs, would that be enough? The names are in the other posts. I’m guessing Pam, Gaughan, Melton, or Dunwoody took the photos. Read them all Garrity and ask:

      http://www.garrityrights.org/garrity-warnings.html

      As a supervisor you are probably aware of this, but this is ASUPD, so we can’t be too sure about that.

    • ComeOnNow says:

      No, I don’t need names, dates, etc. but an idea of what kids of things specifically are done. That is the information I am fishing for.

      I have expressed concern about exaggerated claims on here before, I’m just looking for insight.

      For example, when someone tells the police “I was threatened” you would find out the facts to see if the conclusion they drew was correct. Conclusive language is being used, but the facts that lead to the conclusions aren’t as available.

      I’m comparing my experience with the firearms guys with what is being portrayed and it doesn’t align. I concede there are some strong personalities on the team, but I don’t think there is a systematic approach to try to get people fired. I leave the possibility I’m not informed on the matter, which is why I sought more information.

    • theintegrityreport says:

      There have been several specifics articulated by other posters, but we are looking at the picture as a whole. Stating that the range is a hostile or uncomfortable training environment is not an exaggeration. You may not perceive it to be so, but the vast majority of the department would disagree with you (this would include another commander, who has made comments about feeling uncomfortable at the range).

      Please do not misinterpret the point of this post; we are not asserting the firearms staff is trying “to get people fired”. Even though we mention specific circumstances and people, all the issues mentioned here are the result of inadequate supervision and training. All the departments’ issues are ultimately the responsibility of the leadership to correct.

    • Quick call Tempe! says:

      Maybe it’s one of them, the one previously identified as Sgt Ladyboy sure looks eager for attention. Ask him if he’s too sore to sit down.

    • Really? says:

      ComeOnNow…using the phrase “strong personality” is another way of diplomatically calling someone an abrasive asshole.

  16. Twocents says:

    I can’t help thinking of all the excuses that will come.

    1. The excuses the friends of firearms will come up with to excuse everyone in the photos from wrongdoing.

    2. The excuses to ignore this and keep doing nonsensical internal affair investigation after investigation wasting taxpayer time and money for what purpose?

    3. The excuses ASUPD and university leadership will have to make for action and inaction when their dirty laundry becomes increasingly public.

    From what I have seen a whole lot of headache could have been avoided by simply treating people the way you expect to be treated. If you didn’t learn this lesson as a child you will most likely never learn it as an adult.

  17. Thinblueline1 says:

    We are supposed to follow the same laws, same policies, and we swore to do this and be fair about it. Clearly this doesn’t happen at our department, everyone knows it.

  18. RUkiddingMe says:

    I’m sure they were just having fun, building the morale they worked so hard to destroy everywhere else in the department. The lack of a response from the chief confirms what you guys are saying.

    • Quick call Tempe! says:

      Who’s the complete idiot who captured the inescapable priceless moments of unrequited man love? Pamster? Doing this in uniform…in front of a camera did you really think it wouldn’t end up here?

      Why should they care, nothing is going to happen other than this is getting reprinted into Christmas cards and sent out to every agency in AZ. Where else should it go?

  19. ASUPDsmokeNmirrors says:

    You know none of these fuckers are going to be out there on that shit range qualifying alongside us. They will run off together in secret to the south Tempe PD indoor shooting range with air conditioning, bathrooms, and fullfilling the bullshit double standard they are known for.

    City of Tempe, Chief Ryff, can you remove that privelege from our department? The line officers of ASUPD would really appreciate it.

  20. guerriero says:

    Totally embarrassing, wearing department uniforms, simulating sex. At least they weren’t DUI, sleeping with a teenager, doing drugs or some other illegal garbage. Everyone is right, you know nothing will be done about it.

  21. AnonoymousIntel says:

    Not too sure when rapid firing became “unsafe”. Guess what kids, I hope if an officer is in a shooting he rapidly shoots the bad guy. I was at the range when a former officer, lucky enough to escape ASUPD, “rapid fired” after repeatedly telling the firearms staff he had a funeral to go to the next day. The firearms staff refused to let him leave early so he rapid fired to purposely get kicked off the range. LOL. The firearms staff went ape-shit and started yelling at everyone when they started laughing at the rapid fire. I have to admit it was hilarious and worth watching the idiot squad get all worked up. Nothing like sitting in the middle of the barren desert until 2230 hours with no light, god only knows what creatures, and no facilities.

    What a bunch of wannabe swat douches. ASUPD Firearms is a joke. Balance on a board (aka a see-saw) and fire at a target. Last I checked, unless a cop was at a playground actively chasing a suspect up a see-saw or dog agility obstacle course that is the most useless drill ever created. Integrity report 100 – ASUPD Zero.

    • DontLOLmeJP says:

      They use buzz words like, “Unsafe”to get people who don’t know any better to nod and go, “Oh OK, that makes sense.” Did he muzzle someone? Did he get far off target? Was he unable to control muzzle rise? Did he threaten to eat a bullet? No? Then what exactly did he do? Uhhhhh.

      The group think thing is if one of them says it they all need to say it. The yelling at everyone laughing is bullshit.

    • LOL says:

      LOL at this entire comment. You mean being able to shoot with one hand while balancing on a ball, juggling with the other hand as circus music plays in the background ISN’T tactical firearms training? DAMMIT.

      If I decide to leave ASUPD, looks like I will have a sure shot working at the circus!

    • smokey261 says:

      If you “rapid fire” at any gun range they won’t say a word to you. If they saw you doing a circus balancing act while shooting they would throw your ass off the range. It’s like everything else here, it’s whatever they want it to be.

      They make stupid decisions and scramble to justify it later. You can do that when you and your friends are supervisors. Like these photos, you can do whatever, no standards apply.

    • DoneSon says:

      If that officer was truly one of their own they would have bent over backwards to accomadate him. No membership, then fuck you.

    • yolo says:

      Rapid firing? Did some bring a machinegun to the range? What a joke.

  22. DontLOLmeJP says:

    Anytime you need to laugh about work just look at these tools. The firearms fraternity, Shoota Sigma Goo, pretending to be what they’re not. They are not SWAT operators, not part of a anti-terrorism taskforce, just caddy little tools who hold your career in their hands.

    They can do this with the new policy, the getem game they played with Rudy, or the miscounting game they played with others. You’re not supposed to be an ass to the people who might be backing you up, they would know this if we did serious police work.

  23. DoneSon says:

    Hahaha caught with their pants down. Here’s an idea, don’t wear your police uniform and do stupid shit breaking a half dozen policies in the process. The guy acting like a sorority sister is one of the worst. There are plenty of examples of his rascist bullshit over the years.

    He thought it was acceptable to tell a black officer in training, “Nigger please.” as if that was somehow acceptable. As that officer complains he’s ran out of the department as The Special Friends all band together against him like they have always done for one another over the years.

    • Disgusted says:

      I recall the officer who was the target of Aston’s comments was very intelligent, motivated, and would have made a great asset to the department. Instead of actually reprimanding Aston, the department instead forced the officer to resign.

      This is not the first time Sgt. Aston has made racially-based comments…and because the department refuses to actually DEAL with him, it won’t be the last.

      It is absolutely appalling the disregard the leaders of the department have for anyone that isn’t them and their special friends. They don’t give a shit about their employees (they’re expendable!), they don’t give a shit about the safety of their students or staff…they give a shit about making a six-figure salary with as little effort as possible.

      Everyone who has had a hand in condoning this behavior–either explicitly or implicitly–will be out of a job soon. This would include the majority of Command staff, Pickens, Morgan Olsen, Kevin Salcido, and perhaps even Michael Crow. You all deserve to lose your jobs and get ridiculed in the court of public opinion.

  24. Embudo says:

    ComeOnNow says: “I’m comparing my experience with the firearms guys with what is being portrayed and it doesn’t align.”

    ComeOnNow, you are fortunate that your experience, with the firearms guys, doesn’t align with what is being portrayed. That’s what’s so insidious about crafty and malicious people, they can be subtle, in their evilness toward others.

    ComeOnNow, you’re apparently not one of the firearms guys’ chosen “targets.” But there are definitely double standards on how the firearms guys treat certain individuals.

  25. indeedYOUsay says:

    This gets funnier every time I see it. If only they put the same amount of time and effort into shooting as they did color coordinating and acting like assholes to non club members. Maybe successful qualifications would go up.

  26. yolo says:

    I enjoyed the photos. I look forward to seeing more of them. If anyone has more douchebag clique photos please send them in.

  27. WheresMy907 says:

    They fabricated discipline files, stupid IA’s, on officers for much less. Is anyone aware of the department taking any action at all on these photos? Sounds like a good solid foundation for a civil suit on highly erratic standards of treatment for employees.

  28. OneFlewOverTheCuckoo'sPD says:

    They need to fire the entire group of “thug-bullies” and rebuild the firearms section from the ground up.

    The new group of range officials should understand the intent and purpose of their task at hand: getting folks qualified in a nonthreatening environment.

    Assistant Chief James Hardina, we know you are a frequent visitor and reader of the blog; so what are you going to do about this? We are waiting…

  29. […] we are SECOND only to the official ASU website. The pictures from our post about unprofessional behavior amongst firearms staff is number ONE in google image […]

  30. […] of racially-charged comments and possible bias on behalf of Sgt. Mark Aston in a previous post (Aston was also mentioned at length in our post about ASUPD’s firearms training). Some of these situations were investigated  and “cleared” due to the fact the IA was […]

  31. Embudo says:

    Mark Janda, grabbing his privates in the now-infamous firing range photo, was recently promoted by the ASU PD leadership to interim sergeant.

    How does someone that disgraces the ASU PD and university by posing in such an inappropriate sexual manner, in duty attire, along with his range buddies, Commander Bill Orr, Sergeant Mark Aston and Sergeant Phil Osborne, land up getting promoted?

    What if this had been another group of employees posing inappropriately in duty attire that were not part of the ASU PD’s so-called clique? They would have nailed those employees to the wall with a full-blown and well-publicized IA investigation for bringing discredit and shame to the ASU PD and university.

    Make no mistake, the double standards within the ASU PD are alive and flourishing, despite the removal of John Pickens and Jim Hardina.

    Maybe someone should be asking Chief Mike Thompson about the double standards that continue under his watch.

    • DontLOLmeJP says:

      The problem is the University administration. Mike Crow, Morgan Olsen, and Head HR Placebo Salcido have ignored every red flag at their police department. It’s more business as usual bullshit, they couldn’t care less, and they continue to buy worthless lip service at premium prices. A fool and his money soon go separate ways.

      Leaving the current ASU command intact was a strategic catastrophe that will unfortunately show it’s ugly face come this fall 2014. Our patrol numbers could barely keep pace with lazy summer traffic and with more replacements come more exiting cops.

      It’s another year on a wing and a prayer, endangering the public, all because Mike Crow doesn’t have the stones or foresight to manage this backwards agency and get it on target. To the parents of children who have been and will be affected by this mismanagement, this is your fight to.

    • Getitright says:

      It’s all about double standards and hypocrisy with these individuals. They get off on it, they’re corrupt and they like it. They use it to replaces something they’re missing and they get away with it because their bosses do the same thing. The university has a human resources model that wouldn’t meet the expectations of the private sector, the business college, anywhere where people understand and practice healthy productive human relationships in the workplace. How long were girls in Barrett getting targeted by faculty before any attention was paid to it?

  32. […] over two years now, these weapons have been used exclusively by the elite and always professional ASUPD firearms staff . (In the article, Sgt Macias states that “the [ASU] officers aren’t carrying the rifles […]

  33. […] In a move that surprised no one, ASU announced today it was promoting interim chief Michael Thompson to the top cop spot at the university. Thompson’s promotion has sent a clear message to ASUPD’s employees that the department will continue to press on with  its head in the sand, unable and unwilling to acknowledge any problems such as staffing, morale, and lack of adequate training. […]

  34. OneFlewOverTheCuckoo'sPD says:

    Maybe we need to rekindle this post and comments regarding the infamous firing range clique that appears to be thriving under Chief Thompson.

    Can you imagine what the PD would have done to any non-clique employees if they had posed in such an unprofessional and inappropriate manner while in uniform and on duty?

    Supposedly they conducted an IA on the infamous photo of Orr and his boys. It would be interesting to see the so-called IA that was done through a FOIA request.

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