Here are the original indeed.com postings in their entirety:
When thinking of a career at the ASU Police Department one word comes to mind RUN! If nobody will take you, if you wore out your welcome everywhere else, or your background is so bad you need a waiver, then apply now and regret it later. If this isn’t you, then realize the other Police departments are starting to hire more frequently and simply offer many more opportunities in every way imaginable. People are starting and leaving all the time, year after year, so if family, friends, or school are important forget it. The people who stay are there for a reason and it’s never a good one. The schedule gets changed over and over throughout the year, it’s impossible to get time off, no uniform allowance, no take home car, comp time instead of overtime, and unless you tape record every conversation the dept. won’t back you up in a dispute with the public. If something happens you won’t have adequate backup, you’re on your own. It’s like being a glorified security guard, getting paid like one, getting treated like one, and praying to the lord that nothing bad happens.
The department reputation is dangerous for your career. The morale is in the pits. The lack of step increases or any raises for years is amazing, and the politics/cliques are absurd for an agency this size and with so little responsibility. Your only hope of making more than 40K and change is to promote, work a lot of overtime, or win the lottery. If you are looking to be a real cop and have a rewarding career in law enforcement where you’ll be respected by your department and the public, then don’t give up searching for other department openings. They open and close frequently, make a list of the department with a hyper link to their job posting area. You need to aggressively pursue this task, there’s a reason ASUPD is ALWAYS hiring…If you are young, ambitious, not desperate, or simply want a satisfying job as an officer then go with one of the big names and save yourself a lot of bull.
Yes, I have noticed a lot of the issues you have mentioned as well. After working in LE for years, having many friends in other agencies, it’s hard to say where the blame for what’s been happening at ASUPD goes. People have a tendency to blame the head of the organization for shortcomings, but from what I have seen at the ASU Police Dept. the issues you mentioned cover a lot of ground and people. There is a collective blame, people want to single out the chief, but that’s not fair, he’s not god, he can’t know everything. If he opened up and talked with the troops one on one out in the field he’d find out what he needs to know. The chief only knows what people are willing to tell him and the politics are so bad nobody knows who’s doing what and why. Most agencies expect the public to lie, but not the brothers on the thin blue line who are supposed to have your back. It’s sad. YES, the politics/cliques are pretty bad and it’s not going away since many of the players are supervisors.
No single rain drop thinks it is responsible for the flood. A lot of small unethical things never really get the attention they deserve for all the ranks at the department and this undermines the department mission, it undermines the code of ethics for law enforcement, and ultimately it weakens a department to the point where it stops functioning as one. Every officer from top to bottom took an oath. We have to ask ourselves, “Are we honoring this oath?” Are we doing everything we can to serve the public and keep them safe? Are we serving ourselves and driving out good officers because we’re putting ourselves above what the public deserves? Our department has been weakened because of the selfishness, the pettiness, and the public we serve are being cheated, it’s not right, but I don’t see it changing. If you don’t like it vote with your feet and beat it.
Secret Squirrel wrote:
I agree with the first post made by 311 in regards to the ASU Police Department. There is a reason why ASU always has openings at the PD–they treat their employees like expendable objects. Rather than investing the time and energy to build up an employee’s confidence and skill set, ASU uses them until they are run into the ground. If an employee dare speak up about the wrongs they see around them, they are either run out of the department by frivolous internal affairs investigations, or they are treated poorly until they finally resign (this is assuming the person doesn’t quit within their first week at the PD).
Morale is nonexistent at ASUPD, partially because those who blatantly do wrong are never punished (and, more often than not, end up getting rewarded!), and also because there is a large group of people who would much rather push someone else down to get ahead. It is scary trying to effectively do your job knowing that your department and fellow officers would rather do things that benefit themselves than to do what is ethically/morally/legally right.
Chief Pickens is, perhaps, the worst perpetrator the aforementioned morale problem. Yes, there are many people to blame for what happens out in the field, but Chief realizes there is a huge issue and refuses to address it. Even if none of his subordinates told him about the problems at the ground level, a person with common sense would look at the retention rates at the department (and subsequently, how much money it wastes) and try to figure out the root cause. However, the Chief has insulated himself away from all the problems in the department, so that when something truly bad happens, he can claim he wasn’t informed about said problem. In addition to the problems with morale, the pay is absolutely atrocious for the amount of nonsense one has to deal with on a daily basis.
ASUPD is the lowest paid police department in the valley, yet it has one of the highest paid police Chiefs in the state of Arizona. Uniform allowance, shift differential, and step increases do not exist at ASUPD; officers are constantly told there is no money in the budget for those things, yet the majority of command staff have take-home vehicles, uniform allowances, and various other benefits. Staffing is beyond the critical stage, so if you need adequate backup when stuff hits the fan, you’d be better off calling Tempe/Phoenix/Mesa’s 911 dispatchers directly to get a prompt response.
As 311 also said, your schedule changes on a regular basis because of the low staffing, so taking your earned time off rarely happens. ASU doesn’t even have the manpower to staff its own special events!! There isn’t enough space to adequately spell out all the problems that exist at the ASU Police Department. I understand every PD has its own issues, however, they are generally more substantial at larger departments (ie, Phoenix PD instigating IAs and terminating Officers for sexual assault, drugs) instead of the relatively benign things ASU chooses to self-perpetuate. There ARE good people at ASUPD; unfortunately, they either get run out or leave on their own.
In sum, any potential benefit of working at ASU is outweighed by the substantial amount of problem that are rampant in the department; this could be an awesome place to be if the university cleaned out the dead weight. Until that happens, I wouldn’t advise applying here.
T Doggs wrote:
John 17:17 – Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. My thanks to the other posters who had the stones to come out and post, truth is your friend. If you conduct yourself with the absence of truth in a profession where trust in your fellow officers on the street is essential, where public trust in the department is essential, then you do a disservice to everyone, it’s not just about you. Hey Oldsaltyidgaf, the oath is mission critical important, I will never lose sight of that, no matter how many years in the business I have, but it’s just words to the uninitiated. When you look at how unprepared for the mission ASUPD is, it’s shameful.
The people at the controls jeopardize the mission the department was entrusted with. Nothing has been done about the issues driving employees out the door for years and this undermines the public trust, they have a right to know how unsafe it has become. Bootlicking has its rewards, special details and promotions here, but it does nothing to accomplish the day to day mission. Money? Yeah having the highest paid chief and lowest paid officers is lousy, but that’s how successful cat house owners operate, that won’t fix morale, but it will put more chrome on a car. Higher pay won’t fix the flat lined morale as long as so much of the middle management is the problem. Before deciding to post I noticed ASUPD is hiringyet another Sergeant. The upside down pyramid scheme never gets old.
Sergeants don’t shag calls. Secret squirrel has many good points, some not covered by 311 or Oldsaltyidgaf, how could any one of the previous posters forget to mention the “frivolous internal affairs investigations”? Have you ever heard of a police department that polices its own as much as ASUPD? The silly non-issues that get blown up are quite funny. They probably pulled IA numbers for this post, but if command solved at least some of the internal problems you probably wouldn’t see anything here. I.A. (Internal affairs/investigations) are the unwritten retention program, this is common knowledge. You don’t need to offer any benefits to an officer who can’t leave because you stamped IA on something, warranted or not. It’s not only the subject of IA’s, but the number of IA’s per officer at other agencies when compared to ASU’s, it’s crazy.
The department takes care of its special kids, while the fruit of the future withers on the vine. The secret raises to special friends, the HRlady who gave herself a raise and wasn’t charged with embezzlement, the 10% command staff raises around 2009 when ASU staff all around the University were getting furloughed or fired, how unethical was that? When you’re allowed to operate in a vacuum where officers don’t habitually don’t get tested on the job, where a “team” is made up of a bunch of self- serving individuals, then a climate of gluttonous self-serving apathy becomes the norm. The truth of what’s wrong with the department is readily apparent, but it’s ignored, too many are cowards don’t have the stones to say anything about it. Simply ignoring the truth year after year has benefited the short sighted personal goals of individuals, but the team has suffered.
With staffing so low, with so many people who have left, are trying to leave, or who step in and do an about face out the door, the problems can’t just be blamed on individuals or explained away in meetings anymore. I’ve heard some mention of writing legislation for an AZDPS takeover of ASUPD, like Capital Police. It’s sad, but that’s what it might take to fix it.
Wow, so this is what the talk is about. I haven’t been here that long and have seen some of what you guys are talking about, but not all of it. I just come in and do my job and honestly I’m not sure how long I plan to stay, two years tops, if I’m here any longer than that I’m going to be very discouraged. I’m already dreading the start of the school year because we are so unprepared for it. I talk with some of the guys I went to the academy with and there’s some of the same negative talk about their workplace, but not nearly as much as ASUPD. More money would be nice, but like it’s been said before here, that is just one of a number of issues. Hopefully they will get addressed, we’ll see. Good luck!
The bottom line is this, if you are all not happy then just leave. Nobody asked you to take this job and nobody asked you to work for the department. You made that decision and nobody is keeping you here against your will. You should be happy you have a job, complaining obviously isn’t fixing anything and there are a lot of people tired of hearing it. It’s simple, go to work, do your job, then go home. Leave work at work and home at home.
A police department’s business is not meant to be aired publicly for everyone to see. If you have a problem then address it through your chain of command and if you’re unhappy get out and go someplace else. There are a lot of us that like it here, don’t feel your pain, and don’t care to hear about it, so stop whining. People talk about how corrupt command is, how unqualified new promotions are, how supervisors are doing this or that to them, or how lazy people in specialty positions are, but at the end of the day the future lies with you and nobody else. Don’t blame other people for your failures. Every workplace has issues and people always think the grass is greener someplace else, if it is then go.
I had to break my comments into two parts due to word limits, but here we go… I want everyone who is considering a career with ASU Police to take a good look at what getupnout has to say. This is a good representation of how the ASU command staff feels about their employees. “If you don’t like it, McDonalds is hiring” is something I have heard a former Assistant Chief say; and that is still the attitude today. Does this sound like a cohesive work environment where you will be appreciated and valued? Rather than fix the obvious problems that have been brought up numerous times, they just tell you to quit complaining or hit the road.
You’ll notice that getupnout is calling the people who have a problem with ASU ‘failures’. There is an upside-down model of accountability at ASU Police. Command is unwilling to admit that they need to change or that they basically operate by heaving themselves from one administrative blunder to the next. No, the people at the bottom are responsible for all of the problems with the Department; especially the abysmal staffing situation. There is zero accountability at the higher levels. That being said, is this the same group of people that you want backing you up if you have to defend yourself with lethal force? There is a frightening thought.
Part II, as promised. People are leaving ASU Police. The Department is critically understaffed. The economy is pretty rough, but things are turning around; and once positions open up in other sectors and with other departments there will be a mass exodus. Most people aren’t in the position where they can just quit their jobs without securing other employment first. That being said, most people are looking to get out of ASU; with the exception of a privileged few that are favored by the command staff. It is a lot easier for these privileged few to “go to work, do their job, then go home” as getupnout says. Those people get raises, specialty assignments, and promotions. They also aren’t constantly worried about being subject to a frivolous Internal Affairs investigation that will keep them from being able to lateral to other departments (this is known as the ASU Police retention program, it happens a lot).
Further, the statement “police department business that is not meant to be aired publicly” needs to be addressed. This is not department business. Cases are not being discussed, names are not being named. This is a forum where people share their thoughts on their work environments, and it seems like several people don’t care for ASU Police. If some people want to share their experiences with the department, and you don’t like what is being said… well, no one is forcing you to read this. If you don’t like it, click the little red button in the upper right hand corner of the screen and quit whining.
Secret Squirrel wrote:
Wow. I don’t even know where to start with your comment, getupnout. Judging by the simplicity in your logic, methinks you are probably one of the obtuse, GED-holding members of the “privileged” clique at ASUPD. It’s difficult to “leave work at work and home at home”, getupnout, when ASU’s hostile work environment has bled its way into your personal life. One can only witness the unchecked pettiness and corruption for so long until they become embittered toward the rest of the world. I suppose you don’t know what its like walking around on eggshells, terrified of being reprimanded for breathing funny, do you getupnout? You yourself acknowledge there is an issue at ASUPD, and your cowardly solution is to stop whining because it won’t solve anything.
The unfortunate truth is your indifference to the situation at hand (because it doesn’t affect YOU) is what perpetuates the problem at ASUPD. Obviously the chain of command isn’t working, so a reasonable solution is to try and seek a solution elsewhere, NOT to repeatedly try a failed one over and over. A police department’s business IS public knowledge, whether you like it or not. The department is accountable to the State of Arizona, its constituents, and tax paying citizens.
Maybe you were unaware, but every email, memo, letter of instruction, or training file is publicly available; perhaps if several people in the PD were smart enough to know this, they wouldn’t out rightly lie or alter the truth. I know that may seem foreign to you because you are probably used to operating in the shadows, but eventually the PD’s dirty laundry WILL be aired…It’s a matter if WHEN, not IF. Your apathy towards the situation at hand is disgusting, and quite frankly, disturbing. Anyone that can rationalize this type of conduct by stating that “every workplace has issues” is just as guilty as those who are engaging in unethical behavior. It is quite disturbing you work in a profession tasked with protecting others and bringing impartial justice into an unjust world; you do not deserve the honor and respect of those brothers and sisters who came before you and sacrificed themselves for the greater good.
T Doggs wrote:
ASUPD is so screwed up beyond all recognition of a law enforcement agency you either have to concede your ethics, self-worth, and drink the special HOOTCH OR acknowledge what’s going on and that the truth being told here is what it is. The only way you can be on the fence is to be a new employee who has no idea what a pile you stepped in. If you’re lucky you’ll escape with your career. There are plenty of drone ticks eager to plump up their resume by showing how many people they wrote up no matter how petty and absurd. Getupnout is probably one of the fat TICKS sucking the life out of the place and getting fat on the special raises, raises not based on what you do, but based on what number they will allow a supervisor to give you, if you are one of the SPECIAL kids you never miss it and get more every time.
Getupnout is probably a supervisor who is “owned” (the chief used this term explaining his relationship to staff) by the chief because he or she could not get hired or make it at another department. People like Getupnout will never leave the comfort zone they created for themselves at a cost to others. Real police work, being a cop, scares the hell out of people like Getupnout, it’s easy to deal with the kids at the University. I don’t know what the chief is telling his boss, but whatever filler it is continues to undermine the safety of the public. There is no excuse for how dysfunctional, wasteful, and weak our police department is. How many millions of dollars will be poured into this or that before someone starts wondering what’s going on?!? How is a community college police department able to siphon off employees from a university police department? It’s because they know what they’re doing, they are professional cops who know what they’re doing, while you guys have none of that and keep stuffing your face as the ship is sinking.
For the love of god get a fricken clue. Here’s a fresh idea, go do some cop work, serve the public, and earn merit instead of being another tool stabbing your brothers in blue in the back. Just like a previous poster said, if you think staffing is an issue now, just wait until real departments pick up and start hiring. You won’t be able to run a PD with only your FAT TICKS like Getupnout there to hold the line. Imagine a department run with ethical standards, step increases, opportunity with real specialty positions that are more than being a sloth, the morale of a real team there to back you up, and a place you’ll be proud to work at because they aren’t always on a mission to find fault and retain you through demerits, probably pretty damn unbelievable if you’re still there in the infestation. It could be a really good place to work, but you would have to clean all the ticks off, and that isn’t going to happen any time soon. Thinblueline said, Good Luck. Yeah…that’s not enough.
Scum Devil PD wrote:
Let me start out by saying that I’m not an officer. Also, I don’t work for ASU (nor would I ever work for that wanna-be police department, aka Tempe’s Little Brother). However, I do know lots of people who work at ASU PD, and have heard several stories about what really goes on there. This is what let me to comment on this post. So much to comment on…where do I begin. Let’s start with “getupnout”, whose “love it or leave it” campaign has made him – and the department he represents – look like a complete fool. He says if you’re not happy there then just leave ASU PD. Well, it seems that many are taking your wise sagely advice, as ASU’s numbers continue to drop by the year. Every time I go down to an ASU football game, or any other ASU event, do you know what I see? Tempe PD, DPS, MCSO…but where’s ASU PD? The answer is, they simply don’t have enough staff to help their big brothers out for their own events. How embarrassing is that. I’ve even heard stories about ASU’s Tempe campus being staffed by TWO OFFICERS for an entire shift. Let’s hope there are no criminals reading this, since I’m sure they’d love to take advantage of the fact that the campuses are severely understaffed.
The funny thing is, most departments I’m sure would look at all the officers leaving in droves and wonder, what are we doing wrong? But no. Not ASU. They look at the mass exodus and think to themselves, “Wow, looks like we accidentally hired ANOTHER bad officer! What’s that, like thirty in a row now?” OK, let’s just say that actually was the case. Don’t you think ASU would restructure their hiringstaff then? I’ll continue the rest in the next post due to lack of character space….
Next, our friend says that “a police department’s business is not meant to be aired publicly for everyone to see.” Hmm. Better tell that to whomever I will be contacting to request your training paperwork, your email chains, and any police reports you have written. You see, those are actually all public documents. If you don’t think so, then I invite you to say something racist or sexist and send it via email. Like I said, I’ve never worked for ASU, and I’ve never wanted to. This is all my opinion as an outsider looking in on the situation.
Well it looks like whoever Getupnout is they are reaping the benefits by stepping on the necks of others and don’t give a damn about anyone else. By this attitude I’m suspecting you’re one of the special raise, special promotion, special detail, special education people who are indoctrinated in the stab your brother in the back crap culture that’s been the affliction of ASUPD for some time. Like a thug you try to minimize your own faults, while maximizing the faults of others to make yourself appear better, masking your own misdeeds.
We ALL see right through YALL’s crap. Getupnout, I know who this is. It must have taken every wit of their brain not to say YALL, when they said you all. I’m guessing this is the racist supervisor who runs around making fun of college educated people because of your own intellectual zero amplitude? The lovechildren with the GEDS at that place are surely special! Getting ignorant people to do the unthinkable is the hallmark of mad man leaders. This is the same guy who is always trying to fire everyone or damage their chances of leaving for everything no matter how slight. With his double standard and void of morality he has more in common with the thugs we arrest than a cop.
Yeah, I did some research. The chief signed an AZPOST waiver for his extensive drug history, he knocked up a dispatcher, DV’ed his ex-wife, now a drunk living in his friend’s closet, got thrown out on his ear from another police department to come whimpering back to ASSuPD and he is passing judgment on the public and other cops? He still gets to be a cop? What the ?!?!??!?!?!?!?!? Wow, better get YALL another waiver. Oh wait, yeah, this poster is part of the firearms O boys cliché that can do no wrong, never mind. How did this guy get away with putting on gloves, reaching into a toilet to grab his own excrement, and chase another supervisor around with it? Disgusting and amazing because he lobbied so hard to get people fired for much less and succeeded. No wonder this poster owes so much to the hypocritical standards of the department. Without the department there to hold him up you would be on the other side of the divider at the 4th ave jail, but nope they made him a sergeant, wtf?!?
Any administrator with a lick of common sense would have seen him for the liability he is to the department, the University, the public, and punted. This poster is living in his friend’s broom closet because he couldn’t manage his finances as a Sgt? Getupnout said the public isn’t supposed to know what’s going on inside a police department. That’s for specifics to an ongoing case and victim identity specifics, not shady unethical dealings, or cops with backgrounds like his that couldn’t be a cop ANYWHERE period. The public should know it can trust us because we have nothing to hide, not have that trust damaged when they find they are being judged by some self-serving unethical slime ball who couldn’t meet minimum standards to make the P.D. background.
Getupnout will keep looking down on people from his low point of view, being a hypocrite, a racist, and trying to make everyone as miserable as him. Getupnout has become the dirty back door henchman willing to do whatever to keep his bosses focused on anyone but him, he’s not the only one though, and that’s why so many of us are gone baby and will continue to GETUPNOUT without end because there is too much to fix and no brains and will to do it. The business as usual failure model is Getupnout’s saving grace. Oh look, another 101 running from him, good job, you got game Getupnout, just the wrong one for ladies and a Police Department. I am so glad I’ll never have to work with the likes of Getupnout and his posse again.
THIS POST WAS TAKEN DOWN BY INDEED AND REPLACED WITH:
***Indeed please don’t delete this post, this is helpful information to know before someone applies for a job at ASUPD. The public has a right to know what’s going on inside a local police department. The statements are true and factual, identifying specifics are left out, no names are mentioned.***
Well it looks like whomever the love it or leave it type poster is (name omitted) they are reaping the benefits by stepping on the necks of others and don’t care about anyone else, that’s a great attitude to have for people you might have to depend on in a police emergency. Nobody has any respect for the special raise, special promotion, special detail, special low education types who abide by the “stab your brother in blue in the back” culture that’s been a problem at the department for some time. Criminals try to minimize their own faults, while maximizing the faults of others to make themselves appear better and mask your their misdeeds.
When they said you all I believe they wanted to say YALL. Let’s take a moment to examine double standards for officers and supervisors and take a look at some things any police officer shouldn’t do, especially one working as a supervisor of officers. They shouldn’t run around making fun of college educated people because they can’t achieve higher learning. The lovechildren with the GEDS at ASUPD are special, so special they harbor contempt for anyone with a degree they couldn’t achieve. There are more useful things for a supervisor to do than to try and fire everyone they don’t like or damage their chances of leaving over anything no matter how slight. If you are a person with a double standard and void of morality then you have more in common with the thugs we arrest than a cop
. AZPOST sets the minimum standards for someone to be a police officer in the state of Arizona. That being said let’s look at a few probing questions. Why would the chief sign a waiver for an officer with an extensive drug history? Why would our department take an officer back after they were forced to leave another department with questionable domestic violence issues, or one with a substance abuse problem? Would you want an officer of this caliber passing judgment on the public and other cops? Furthermore what sort of department would hire an officer like this and promote them to watch over other officers? Pretty amazing isn’t it, it’s a shame it’s true. What would you think of a police supervisor who put on gloves, reached into a toilet to grab his own excrement, and then chased another supervisor around with it? IS this someone who should be trusted with protecting your children at the university? What would you think of some who did this, got away with it, and then lobbied so hard to get people fired for much less.
The hypocritical standards of the department can reward someone so out of touch with what they should be doing and ignore people performing above and beyond what they are supposed to be doing. Without the department there to hold up a person who would conduct themselves this way a supervisor of officers like this would be on the other side of the divider at the 4th ave jail. A previous poster said the public isn’t supposed to know what’s going on inside a police department. That’s for specifics to an ongoing case and victim identity specifics. The public has every right to know about the shady unethical dealings of the people judging them, and about cops with backgrounds that couldn’t be a cop ANYWHERE period. The public should know it can trust us because we have nothing to hide. They deserve not have that trust damaged when they find they are being judged by self-serving, unethical, supervisors who couldn’t meet minimum standards to make the P.D. background
. Unfortunately some people will keep trying to look down on people from their low point of view, being hypocrites, closet racists, and try to make everyone else as miserable as themselves. If it is someone’s lot in life to be the dirty back door henchman willing to do whatever to keep his bosses focused on anyone but themselves then shame on them. Workplace issues like this are why so many of us are gone baby and will continue to GETUPNOUT without end because there is too much to fix and no brains or will to do it. The business as usual failure model is some people’s saving grace. I am so glad I’ll never have to work with the love it or leave it poster and his posse again. You would never think working at a University police department would be that stressful. An officer shouldn’t be more stressed out by supervisors playing the gotcha game, doing IA’s over everything any other department wouldn’t in order to jam up employees from making it somewhere else.
In a direct violation of labor law you have senior supervisors calling other departments and slandering prospective employees into the ground, how is that ethical? When you’re not accountable to a standard of ethics and operate outside the accepted ones of society, of your profession, you become no better than the victimizing criminals we arrest. Instead of conducting a witch hunt to find the people posting on here you should be getting your house in order, do right by the people who serve you and the public, and stop the aggressive internal complaint nonsense that drives people crazy. When people like where they work the complaints go down and they even stay there, maybe for a career.
This forum degraded from insiders’ views of a police department with its share of issues (as all departments have) to a shameful and personal attack on one of its employees. I have seen people in the thread speaking of not having the “stones” to bring issues forward in the department. I can’t be the only one who finds humor in the fact the poster didn’t have the “stones” to post his/her identity. This refers not so much to those with honest concerns, but especially to “Yallsmom” who would hide behind the anonymity of his/her username to lob insults at someone who can’t answer back. Yallsmom refers to a “stab your brother in blue in the back culture” and proceeds to go forth with a personal and tasteless tirade which, as I can infer based on the disclaimer at the beginning, even the site moderator thought at one time was over the line.
I don’t have all the facts in each of the accusations Yallsmom makes, but the ones I do have knowledge of are either extremely inflated or outright lies, which then calls in the credibility of all of the accusations. Yallsmom should remove his/her post. It is clearly slanderous, not to mention vile and baseless. You should be ashamed of yourself. I would expect more from someone who claimsto be a professional.
Secret Squirrel wrote:
Really, Levelhead? While maybe a bit over the top, I believe that “Yallsmom” was talking about how a specific employee who embodies everything that is wrong with ASUPD. It was written in a pretty tongue-in-cheek type of way, but its overall meaning is pretty valid. Additionally, everything that was mentioned about this specific person was, to my knowledge, 100% accurate. Maybe you should take a step back and think about the reasons why no one wants to actually reveal his/her identity?
Retaliation, first and foremost, but maybe the sad realization that the university does not care about its PD employees. The Chief, VP of Finance, and the President of the University do not care about any of its employees that are actually WORKING in the trenches, unless they screw up. If they cared, maybe they would stop for one moment, assess the large amount of negative feedback coming from the PD (not to mention the people that leave in droves) and wonder why?! Besides, any complaint, whether valid or not, is merely thrown into the trash due to the impartial and inbred nature of ASUPD’s HR(previously having the HR person married to the Asst Chief?!). THOSE are the vile things in these posts you speak of, not an accurate portrayal of an employee that works at the PD. And by the way, before you use legal terms like SLANDER, maybe you should research their meaning, because you used the INCORRECT TERM.
One other thing I forgot to touch on…yes, all departments DO have their issues (no one is debating that fact here). But I cannot think of any, off the top of my head, that are so blatantly corrupt and mismanaged. The amount of $$ the PD waste is absolutely mind-boggling; from a department that boasts a 70% FAILURE RATE FOR FTO (after spending the money to pay for an academy, uniform, salary, etc), to one that wastes money on ludicrous “specialty assignments” (really? ANOTHER new K9 vehicle!), take home vehicles for command staff, and a complete revamp of the uniform and badge. On top of that, ASUPD has the LOWEST paid officers in the Valley and the highest paid Chief. That is absolutely unacceptable.
Furthermore, because of staffing, the campus is ridiculously understaffed, and quite frankly, not prepared for any MAJOR crime on campus (like an active shooter). I am not even going to go into detail on the vast amount of public record tampering that transpires there too, because there’s not enough space to detail it all. I hope parents and the public at large find out how much money ASUPD wastes and how unsafe it is, because then maybe some significant change will happen there.
In all my years in law enforcement, I have never been affiliated with an organization that operates in such a pernicious fashion. And being as objective as I can, I would validate a high-percentage of the postings on “Indeed” as legitimate and truthful regarding the ASU PD. As we are accountable to our leadership, they, too, are accountable to us, to ensure that we, as members of the ASU PD, are afforded a healthy and threat-free work environment as clearly delineated in Staff Personnel Manual (SPP), SPP 801: Employee Conduct and Work Rules, revised 7/1/2013. Any member that does not fully understand the intent, not their personal interpretation, of the university policy, puts themselves and the department at great peril.
And contrary to what some in our chain of command might think, it is within our rights, as university employees, to go outside the chain of command, at anytime, for resolution of a problem(s), especially if we perceive the chain of command, or elements of the chain of command as the problem. We currently have a lot of good officers in our department. However, I have witnessed firsthand many very capable and decent officers drummed out of the department because the department deemed them, for whatever reason, a “threat” to the status quo.
As we receive both formal and informal feedback on a daily basis from our supervisors, I would encourage our leadership to view the postings on “Indeed” as feedback from the rank-and-file on deep concerns that many of us have on how our department is operating. The boss at the top of any organization is ultimately responsible for what goes on–good or bad. Yes, the boss can’t possibly know everything that goes on, but he sets the tone for how supervisors within an organization operate and interact with employees.
I never intended for this to be a forum for vitriol, but I guess it was inevitable. I understand that for some this can be a difficult thing to manage especially if they are still working at ASUPD. Once you’re out at a new department it’s a whole new world full of possibilities, workplace support, higher pay, and positive. Yes, sometimes the grass is a lot greener, other police departments do have workplace issues; like where do we find office space for all the former ASUPD employees we hired? Does anyone else find it ironic that the posters in favor defending the department don’t answer any of the specific negative issues mentioned with substantive content? Their other tactic is to severely downplay what’s going on with “Every workplace has issues” which could mean anything and says nothing.
The poster getupnout had nothing to say other than love it or leave it, this poster is hostile to people criticizing the culture that supports them, but turns its back on everyone else. Getupnout has a selfish and immoral response to what’s going on. The same poster makes the comment about what’s going on inside a police department being private. Anyone armed with the basic knowledge of their civics and government class from high school should see through that false premise. Broaden your horizons, did you ever talk to someone from another country who don’t have the rights we have, ask them about their police departments and then maybe your opinion will carry some weight. Ask them how they like their rights getting stripped away because someone practices might over right. If your day to day job is to enforce our written code of law, the expected behavior and basic morality of the people, then you should practice morality in your own life, which includes your workplace, read a book.
Speaking of morality, the poster Yallmomsboyfriend had some interesting things to say about the morality of having a prejudicial double standard within a career field that is supposed to promise equal justice for all under law. I know about some of these stories and the ones I know of are TRUE, so called Levelhead is more aptly named Puppet head. Puppet head is probably one of the unstable personalities featured in the stories. They use the term “slander” to refer to the written word usage because” libel” isn’t in their vocabulary, in short, slander is SPOKEN.
When a supervisor of police officers thinks it’s OK to chase another supervisor around a police station holding his own excrement and NO internal affair comes of it AND everyone knows about it?!? Come on, get real. It was on nights, you were in charge, so you thought nobody was watching? Puppet head offers more of the nope I didn’t do it, it’s not true, denial and that’s weak. Puppet head does a good job representing the internal culture of ASUPD, do as I say, not as I do. When a police department operates like this internally how are they operating externally? How many civil rights violations are you going to talk about witnessing before someone in the public sues? If they knew their rights they would get a lawyer and sue the pants off the officers committing them and the department for negligent training, supervision, and in one case, negligent retention.
LevelPuppet head also pokes at the fact nobody on here is using their real name. Come on, did you really expect people on here to reveal their identities so you could find a way to retaliate against them for expressing their opinions? Where’s your real name, more hypocrisy, but you’re so used to it you didn’t even know you were doing it. Everyone knows how you went out of your way to fire an officer who didn’t fit in, a father of two/three children, and then as he applied to other departments you make hostile phone calls about him to the prospective agencies looking to hire him.
In fact, this is a regular practice at ASUPD. LevelPuppet head talks about “VILE” and “BASELESS” well there are just a few examples right there, but they don’t affect you, so who cares right? LevelPuppet head, you are exactly the point to all these postings; YOU and those like you are the problem. One poster used the expression “Fat Ticks”. That explains the situation perfectly. The chief thought you guys were part of his elite team holding everything together when actually the elite left out the door year after year because of your little circle of friends, one after another they left. The chief mistakenly nurtured the parasitic personalities who were sucking the life out of the department instead of the ones who brought people together, had real police experience, and could have made the department strong instead of a house divided against itself.
My thanks go out to everyone, even Puppethead, who took the time to attend and write their opinion for the Unofficial Chief’s Advisory Board. God Bless America for our First Amendment Rights and a special thanks to Indeed.com for assisting in the endeavor and providing an open forum to discuss our past, present workplaces, and letting freedom reign.
I am not defending anyone here. My intent is to point out that the purpose of this forum is to evaluate the workplace, not a place to lob insults at individuals. With regard to slander vs. libel, the two are not mutually exclusive. All libel is slander but not all slander is libel. Either way, this is not the place for it. I’m also not saying ASU has fewer problems than other places.
I’ll be the first one to admit there are different levels of expectation and accountability between line officer and command. I would stop short of saying it’s corrupt. That has a different connotation than what I perceive to be the reality. Inept, unprepared, head in the sand, mismanaged, yes. Corrupt? Probably not. The small amount of “love it or leave it” I embrace is based on the fact that we are a university PD who no one seems to care about. That means change is difficult under current circumstances. If you don’t love it, you’ll have to leave it if you want something different
Part 1: Yallsmomboyfriend, you forgot a couple: the officer who got a DUI then was brought back as a police aide; the officer who, upon finding used sex toys in a transients belongings, chased and threw them at other officers on scene while the subject was being processed; constant mishandling of calls and victims by a recently medically retired officer; and need I say more than “D’s girls?” Secret Squirrel don’t forget the patrol “uniform reqs” that take for the most part, 8+ months to be approved while brass gets same day approved uniform items. I know of at least 4 ballistic vests that are expired and have been waiting 1+ years for the approval. The department gets grants for these, where’s the money going since it appears not to be going towards vests?
Pay attention Levelhead in Arizona, this one’s for you. Let’s also not forget all of the sexual harassment claims against the former assistant chief, who was allowed to retire with full benefits and is now Director of Emergency Preparedness at ASU. I know everyone here was at the last annual state of the department meeting and heard that doozie of a comment about the student who complained to him that and asst chief’s reply of “maybe he(the student) should have died in the MU fire.” Is that really someone that should be A) an assistant chief of police and B) a director of EHS? I think not.
Since Levelhead in Arizona wants to deny claims of corruption in the department lets talk about the former assistant chief and corruption. Brass approving each other’s req’s same day for everything under the sun from brass uniforms to food for brass meetings to specialty assignment reqs while regular patrol is waiting 6+months to even 1+years for their uniform reqs to be approved. Who do you think needs uniform equipment more due to wear and tear? Why does the department “not have the money” for necessary equipment but somehow has money for nonsense. Then there was all of those sexual harassment claims disappearing.
Part 2: Hmm I wonder how that happened, could it be due to the wife of the former assistant chief being the HR manager of the department? Could it also be due to the former head of dispatch being friends with said HR manager and subsequently driving away all of the dispatchers who made said claims? A lot of talk here has been on high turnaround of officers but lets face it, turn around is high all over the department. The understaffing of ASU dispatchers has gone on just as long as the officer understaffing.
Levelhead, you still paying attention, here’s another one for you. Why is it that the department is more than willing to pay other agencies for their dispatchers, at their higher rate of pay with overtime plus allow them to park inside of the compound yet refuses to hire/train more of their own dispatchers? That would save the department a bit of money, you know money that the department “doesn’t have.”
Then there is the difference in charging various groups on campus for department services. For example, the chief provides free services for the jewish club during their holiday celebration, but for everyone else it is time and ½. What’s going on there Levelhead, looks a little fishy. Not to mention that each campus is run not by the police commander but instead by the asu deans of said campus. Need an example, downtown patrol units, need I say more. There is a pa detail inside of a locked building, at night….because the dean told commander and chief it will be so. That is just one of many examples but the point remains that the department is running into the issue of having non AZPOST certified personnel running the department, giving orders to sworn personnel that runs counter to AZPOST.
Part 3: In regards to the specialty assignments, wow. I can’t even begin to say how many new hires complain about their first week at the department after being stuck with one of the special assignment guys. The last one that talked with me about it said all they did was look at lighting and camera equipment…for 1 week…and the question was brought up of how that was department/training related. Good question, any of the department koolaide drinkers care to answer that one cause I sure didn’t have a response for him at the time.
Another question you can answer is the frequent new hire/student/parent question of why does the department have a bomb dog instead of a drug dog? Last I heard was brass and ASU didn’t want to admit there was a drug problem on campus. Um yea, news flash, marijuana, cocaine and black tar heroin have all been found in campus dorms so you can say you don’t have a drug problem all you want, doesn’t change the fact that you actually do have one. Then there’s the fun, ever changing call out process for the bomb dog and we all know how often that specialty officer accepts call outs. What’s my point in all this? Why bother having a K9 unit if it doesn’t get used? That’s money being allocated to a worthless source. Money better spent on patrol, hiring, training and retention.
Let’s not forget the wonderful training program. How many academy recruits and laterals were washed out due to “safety concerns” which were really just personality conflicts under the watchful eye of the last training sergeant? I’ve heard on more than one occasion from “trainers” the joking about having a hirer number of failed candidates because they are “tougher” trainers. No, actually the sign of a good trainer/teacher is your success rate and what does it tell you when laterals with 25+years as LEO elsewhere start your FTO process and leave a couple months later? Does it mean they can’t hack it?
Part 4: Really, as an university officer after being a street/county/military cop….guess again. Instead of being reprimanded for her inability to get new hire officers through the training and out on the street, this former training sergeant was applauded by the brass. In case you’re wondering, yes she did get a bonus. In regards to the “department business is not public business,” well that’s already been addressed but I’ll touch on a couple issues in this. All employees used to be able to view the department req folder to see when their items were approved. Now everyone but brass is blocked from seeing the folder. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that this occurred after some questionable items were seen in the req folder instead of necessary items, vests, for patrol and questions started being asked, isn’t that right Levelhead, no wrongdoing here just put the blinders back on.
Oh and in case anyone doesn’t know. If you want to see exactly were all the department money is going that the department “doesn’t have,” every asu library has a copy of the Budget Book behind the circulation desk. I suggest you all educate yourselves because after years of hearing the same line of “no money for raises,” it was eye opening going back through the years and seeing the select few who got secret raises and why there was “no money.” Like others have said, this department has the potential to be a great department but it will require a lot of cleaning up throughout the department as a whole before getting there.
I want to first thank everyone for their contributions to this forum; I am hoping some actual CHANGE will come about as a result of this dialogue. ASUPD may be able to discredit one or two people who speak out against the department as being disgruntled, but I highly doubt they able to stamp out the voices of the majority. Keep the discussion alive! I wanted to touch on a few things that hadn’t been mentioned in great detail in other posts.
The first is the Chief really not caring about his employees. He manages a department with maybe 40-50 sworn officers, and a handful of civilian employees, but he is too self-absorbed to remember the names of any of us “underlings”. You’re not the Chief of a Phoenix-sized department, would it kill you maybe TALK/INTERACT with us employees in the field to give the illusion that you care?
On that same note, one thing that will ALWAYS stick with me (and is a prime example of Chief not caring about his people) occurred at a fallen Corporal’s funeral several years ago. I was disgusted that the Chief spoke about the deceased as if he literally read from this person’s personnel file. That person was very well liked and respected at the department, and the only thing you managed to say about him was irrelevant garbage like how many promotions he had, or a case he had worked on…NOT what kind of person he was or the impact he made on the department/university. It was cold, forced, and extremely disrespectful.
While at the cemetery, I watched the Chief go down the line and shake our hands, and when he got to the Police Aides all lined up and wearing their class-A uniforms, he literally turned and walked away. I could not believe the amount of disregard he had for his civilian employees who had come to pay their respects. Chief, maybe you should have interpreted your stroke several years ago as the big man upstairs (and no, I don’t mean a large former AC standing on the roof) as a sign you should retire.
The next issue, which I am surprised isn’t discussed at length, is the reprehensible behavior of the former training Sergeant (we will call this person SPAM). I have personally witnessed SPAM drive out a whole slew of both sworn and civilian employees, many of which were former cops with lots of experience, and some of which were already department employees. SPAM has NO qualifications/certification to train sworn employees; same thing with all her “buddies” she has train new employees.
SPAM is a horrible officer on top of that…is the third unit to respond on the scene of something halfway serious, yet SPAM is the first unit on scene for a fire alarm call. That is if SPAM actually comes to work; I don’t know how its possible to be “Officer of the Year” when you spend half your workweek working on “projects” at home. I have never seen SPAM to work an entire workweek without calling out or leaving early, but I suppose when your supervisors (who are your friends!) approve your timesheets, its easy to fudge numbers. SPAM is probably the worst offender in the department, only second to the Chief. SPAM is the person responsible for the lack of staffing at ASU…I didn’t realize the training program that SPAM made up (which is different for every person) was so elite it had a washout rate greater than that of the FBI?!
SPAM, its pretty obvious you are incompetent, very scared to do your job, and very insecure about yourself. You project those things onto other people and convince your friends in the department that “THEY” are the problem, not YOU. You have no business working in law enforcement, and when the department is investigated by DPS/Feds, you will be the first to go. By the way ASUPD, all your policies you claim that limit what your employees say about the department? And your desire to create an IA based on these postings on indeed? I didn’t realize your policies could trump the United States Constitution (both the First and Second Amendments at that)!
Before you guys read some of what I wrote and bury me with complaint I want you to understand a few things. Ideally this is not where you as employees should be posting your complaints about the department, but you really have no other option and I understand that. The issues you mentioned should have been addressed years ago, so the department wouldn’t be in the state it is today. A poster described the department as, “A house divided against itself…” and from what I’ve seen that’s accurate. The original quote continues loosely…”…cannot stand.” I don’t see this as the case at ASUPD. We will continue to stand, get by, despite the division, but we could be capable of doing so much more without the issues, the people, responsible for this division.
I read the comments from NAGA regarding the department’s track record with sexual harassment and thought some further clarification is necessary. Unfortunately this post looks like it was removed at one point after I began writing this? I don’t know. Most of you have not been in a position where you would have been aware of this information, but I feel you have a right to know about it. I feel prospective employees have a right to know what they’re signing up for. Every workplace has its issues and that’s exactly what we are all talking about on here.
I have enjoyed my years of working with many people here, good people, but the department does have a long way to go to fix the issues mentioned. Unfortunately some of these issues are ties to people who have made their home here and they won’t be going away anytime soon. There are a lot of complaints against ASUPD supervisors on here, but you can’t paint all of us with the same brush. Don’t think for a moment that everyone on the second or third floors agree with how the department has been managed. If you think misconduct at work is limited to supervisors you are mistaken, not all IA’s, internal affairs, are bad ones, ones done for retention, etc. Sure, a number of them have been done when the department knew employees were applying to other agencies. Others were done on select officers and not ones who, in some cases were the target of the investigation. To say that all IA’s are bad is simply not true, but I can surely understand the skepticism given the track record of the department. We need an independent oversight group to manage internal affairs that have been mismanaged for years. The employees need to be able to trust their supervisors and vice versa. Without trust in this business you have nothing.
You mentioned one of the former assistant chiefs, ok, let’s examine this more closely. The chief gave a sexual harassment investigation on a former AC to AZDPS (Arizona Department of Public Safety) to investigate, they returned the results of the investigation, and the chief left it sealed on his desk for over a year until the subject of the complaint could exit his position and get into another state job. Is it right that this same former employee has access to the department and hasn’t changed the behavior yet? No, but it’s not about right and wrong. It reminds me of reading about the recidivism rates of sex offenders, they just can’t bring themselves to function in the norms of society, and so what do we do with them? When the second in command collected sexual harassment complaints for years, what’s another one right? This includes all the ones supervisors were aware of, but nobody put into writing or dug any further
. Everyone here knows how retaliation works because we see it in real time, have no independent system of oversight, and conflicts of interest, ethical abuses are allowed to run wild. Example; when a sergeant becomes known for peeping on couples having intercourse from beginning to end, females urinating in public, disappearing on duty with females, and with complaint after complaint this individual rises up to police commander and then assistant chief of the department? I would go as far as saying this behavior is rewarded, encouraged, and the norm. The AZDPS investigation was probably thrown in the trash once all concerned parties were free and clear. I was never privy to the investigation, but I can’t ignore the conflict of interest here.
The majority of posters accuse the supervisor class as a whole for not having morality, for ruining the department, but this is not true. These issues bother me and this is why I have decided to post on here as well, I to understand the limits of the complaint process at ASUPD, retaliation, and I’m disappointed to say the least. I will address the conflict of interest issue. ASUPD gives extensive amounts of overtime work directly to AZDPS and their command staff. In the case of an Assistant chief, to the bosses of the people doing the investigation on you, plus this is one branch of state police investigating another branch of state police where the bosses are friends. Unfortunately ASUPD has a habit of burying ethics investigations on protected employees before they get off the ground. Once they leave they can get hired again by the state again or even the agency and start where they left off.
Another ASUPD assistant chief had a history with sexual no no’s in the workplace when he left on a hot seat from his former police department. He arrived in time to give all the ASUPD employees a formal presentation on ethics and said he’d nail anyone getting a free Big Gulp. While worrying about Big Gulps he loaded the gas grill purchased by patrol into his truck and took it home thinking all the people who paid for it wouldn’t notice or miss it. These assistant chiefs left the department, so this does not apply to the AC’s currently in command 2013. Given the track record, they will probably be featured on here as well, but I hope not. I hope they look at the issues here seriously without ego and scorn, I hope they take the moral high ground and do their part to make the department a desirable place to work.
We owe that to ourselves in a manner of self-respect, to the people under our command, and to the public we serve. To put it simply we need to make a choice to honor our oaths or to dishonor ourselves and everyone we serve. Stay safe out there.
T Doggs wrote:
The sexual harassment doesn’t stop there Insideview, you forgot to mention the other ones or didn’t want to for some reason. First line supervisors have participated in this with the same complete lack of consequences. One bucking for sergeant, known for how much he thinks he knows, but doesn’t know about police work, has put a great deal of energy into sexual harassment. To date there isn’t one single female that has worked around him that he hasn’t come on to and asked out for a date, even ones dating other officers, dispatchers, etc. One finally complained formally, while the others complained informally fearing he is a supervisor and what that could do to their jobs. This same supervisor used to be allowed to train new officers out of the academy and lateral officers from other departments until it became overwhelmingly aware how hostile he was to all subordinates, no matter how many more years on they had than him at real police departments. He continues to tell subordinates to do unethical things, change details, omit others, all to make sure things go the way he wants them on scenes. I get reports on his behavior on a regular basis, it’s amazing!
When a department doesn’t take steps to curb unethical behavior, sexual harassment bordering on procurement it sends a clear message. That message to the public is, “This is a brothel masquerading as a police department.” The message to the harasser is that this behavior is not that bad, borderline OK, and that complaints will come and go, but your job will always be here. The message to the victim is, when a boss of police does wrong we make sure we investigate ourselves and the wrong disappears. If you’re a female does this sound like the type of workplace you’re looking for?
Some have enjoyed it, they slept with half a dozen guys here, leave to go do it somewhere else or stay and marry one of the johns, but for everyone else you might have to bury your sensibilities and ignore all the things you think you know about workplace behavior if you are going to come here. I believe as a police department we should do more than print ethical standards, frame them, post them on the first floor, and forget about them. If we were to someday operate within the guidelines of the written ethical standards the issues posted here must be corrected. If the department operated ethically these posts probably wouldn’t exist. If you don’t have ethical standards then you attract the lowest of the low to stay at your department and thrive like weeds in the yard.
I agree with what Insideview said about an independent review board, one that could Roto Rooter the corruption and filth out of the pipes.
PART 1 I would like to say thank you to all the posters, including opposing views, on “Indeed” to have the courage to bring your take and experiences working at the ASU PD. This open forum allows us, members of the ASU PD, to shed some light on how a department could go so awry. Yes, Boss, you are not above the law. You will be held accountable at the end; even if you claim that you were not privy to some of the most abhorrent and repugnant shenanigans that have plagued the department under your watch.
Again, make no mistake, the rank-and-file will hold you accountable as well as the university leadership, I am confident. And if you are attempting to ascertain who the posters are on this open forum, I would like to politely remind you to read the HOTLINE FOR ETHICS AND COMPLIANCE that was recently sent to all university employees Tuesday, September 03, 2013, by the current Executive Vice President, Treasurer and CFO of ASU. And I would hope that you are not expending department resources on who the posters are–this would be, in my opinion, skirting on the fringes of retaliation. And if you have already initiated an internal affairs (IA) investigation on the postings, this would probably fit the definition of “posturing” for retaliation. There’s an old saying: “fools walk where angels fear to tread.” This is an open forum and we can express our opinions as we see fit as long as it’s in compliance with “Indeed” standards. Now everyone, parents, grandparents, uncles, aunts, brothers, sisters, top-level ASU administrators, faculty, staff, students, Joe Public and the media, from Djibouti to Hartford, Connecticut, to Los Angeles, California, now have unimpeded access, via “Indeed,” to the department’s internal issues.
PART 2 And it pains this poster that it had to come to this. But when leadership of a department loses its ethical and moral compass and can no longer discern right from wrong and affords only themselves and selected elements, dubbed cliques by some posters, special treatment and perks to the detriment of the majority, that’s unconscionable. With the current leadership unwilling to acknowledge and FIX deep-rooted cultural problems and address the selected elements, at this juncture the only viable solution to “right the ship” is to request an outside intervention. The intervention is critical in bringing the department in compliance with the laws, polices and regulations, as outlined in the Executive Vice President, Treasurer and CFO’s recent university-wide email.
A couple of suggestions that might affect positive and everlasting change in the department. I would suggest, based on the current climate in the nation, that you take your concerns to the university for resolution. Is it a coincidence that university employees received an email from the Executive Vice President, Treasurer and CFO of ASU on ethics and compliance after the flurry of postings on “Indeed” regarding the department? With the previous scandals and cover-ups regarding the University of Pennsylvania, and now the former president of the university and two of his former top-level henchmen being indicted, I think the university will take whatever fact-based information you provide them and will investigate your grievance(s) in a fair and impartial manner.
PART 3 Another suggestion, if you feel that the university might not investigate your grievance(s) to your satisfaction, you can connect with your elected officials, either your representative or senator. Remember they work for YOU! Just put together your fact-based information package and hand-deliver to their office. If you cannot meet with him/her face-to-face, you can drop off your package at their office. The package will be logged in and processed through their protocol. No employee should EVER have to come to work and feel they are walking on eggshells–that is a classic example of a HOSTILE work environment! We should NOT have to witness another top-notch, highly-qualified, highly-competent and truly ethical officer drummed out of the department because leadership and selected elements of the leadership deemed them a THREAT!
I should NOT have to witness, as I did several weeks ago, one of our decent, hardworking and ethical officers attempting to secure his ballistic vest using evidence tape because the requisition the officer submitted eons ago, for a new ballistic vest, entered the proverbial black hole for the umpteenth time–IT IS HIS LIFE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE! UNACCEPTABLE! I will NOT accept top-level ASU administrators baselessly questioning the integrity, work ethic and maturity-level of any of my fellow co-works; or dictate how we DO our jobs! “Indeed” is a wonderful place to openly discuss issues and concerns. And I thank them for giving us that open forum. I also thank the posters that chimed in that felt that the status quo at the department was fine, I respect your views even if I vehemently disagree with you.
*This is the second part to my earlier post. It contains factual information and is integral to the larger topic of ASU’s workplace; something new/prospective employees need to know!*
One issue, which I am surprised isn’t discussed at length, is the reprehensible behavior of the former training person. I have personally witnessed her drive out a whole slew of both sworn and civilian employees, many of which were former cops with lots of experience, and some of which were already department employees. She has NO qualifications/certification to train sworn employees; same thing with all her “buddies” she has train new employees. She is a horrible line level first responder on top of that…is the third unit to respond on the scene of something halfway serious, yet she’s is the first unit on scene for a fire alarm call. That is if she actually comes to work; I don’t know how its possible to receive accolades in the department when you spend half your workweek working on “projects” at home. I have never seen this Sergeant work an entire workweek without calling out or leaving early, but I suppose when your supervisors (who are your friends!) approve your timesheets, its easy to fudge numbers.
Part 2: She’s the worst offender in the department, only second to the leader of the department. She is the person responsible for the lack of staffing at ASU…I didn’t realize the training program that she made up (which is different for every person) was so elite it had a washout rate greater than that of the FBI academy! It’s pretty obvious she can’t handle the demands of job (which compromises others’ safety). She projects her issues onto other people and convinces others that “THEY” are the problem, not HER. Her case is probably the easiest to prove; she became more and more brazen with her missteps, so the paper trail will her is pretty easy to follow. I know of lots of people who all have evidences of her dirty deeds, so she’s already made her bed, so to speak.
I am blown away by the responses on here! I feel this is the discussion the department needs to be having within its self, but we all know that will never transpire. It has become pretty apparent that no amount of “advisory boards” or university complaints will solve this issue. It is like painting over black mold; if the source of the problem isn’t removed, the decay will keep seeping through the shiny new exterior. Insideview: I really am blown away by your frank comments. What do you think the next step for the department/its employees should be, since the command is helpless to resolve the situation? TDoggs and Naga: You have touched one of the reoccurring issues at ASUPD. I have witnessed the very blatant sexual harassment firsthand (with the same people you’ve mentioned), and it is very disturbing some of these people are responsible for the well-being of students, especially vulnerable young women. If police officials can’t control themselves among their own (most of which are tougher than the average woman), how can they control themselves around young, scantly clad and intoxicated coeds?
EMBUDO: I agree with everything you’ve written; its sad that ASU’s employees had to come to this point to air their concerns about the PD/university. Unfortunately, I don’t see anything changing until this whole situation blows up on a national media level, or the department is investigated by the feds. ASU’s “Compliance Hotline” is a joke. Do you think anyone in their right mind with be the first to step forward without some significant legal representation? ASU is so inbreed that we all know any complaint with any amount of teeth to it will require a name, which is exactly what the PD wants. They want to hang this all on one person so they can explain it all away by saying the whistleblower is just a disgruntled employee/former employee with an ax to grind
. All of us know how ASU works, which makes it even more difficult to fix the problem. The university has mega bucks at is disposal, and they would spend a lot of it to preserve their reputation as an educational institution. They would bury a single person in a pile of paperwork in order to prevent the truth from getting out. No one is willing to come toe-to-toe with this beast unless its a collective effort with the backing of some high powered attorney.
Today I prayed that the all of us, especially those running ASUPD, believe in a higher power than ourselves and use a little wisdom to look within and reflect on what is important. I prayed, firstly for those with the power to change the department for good, secondly for the disgruntled employees to have a better workplace, here or elsewhere, and to find a positive end for their grievances. For the sake of the people we serve, for ourselves, for the people we love I pray that you all will find good in your hearts, nurture it, turn to it over ego, pride, and base emotions that are the hallmarks of lesser people. Command; use this forum to fix the workplace.
There is a lot of good information here that you don’t want to hear, but you need to. If there are workplace sins that affect us, that are hidden from us, then we have a right to know of them and demand amends, to expect people to be held accountable. If you know of something not mentioned you have an obligation to come clean about it, we were never meant to be concealers of truth, and we took oaths before god to be champions of it. The vast majority of the public trusts us with this precious commandment, it is our obligation. This is a time for reflection, to judge ourselves.
Throughout life we all have had someone wrong us, but more often than not they do so out of their own weakness and failing. We’re human, we take offense, but when you have time to contemplate it you should pity the offenders for what they are missing. They are missing inner peace, god’s love, and they act out on others like animals in pain. Perhaps a biblical reference will help everyone along the path to proper conduct. We are all fallible beings making mistakes, hopefully we can look at what is written here not as a damnation, but a reaffirmation to get right with the lord, get right with ourselves, and to do right when it comes to our own conduct, maybe it will make a positive difference with how we treat one another when we take our personal pride, our ego, out of the picture, when we become our brother’s, our sister’s keeper instead of their adversary. I would like to see this become the new norm and strengthen our department
. Good leaders are never the adversary of the people they are leading; they are mentors living by good example, setting the tone for the future. A leadership position is meant to be a place of honor, not a place free of it to do what you wish. If you are a believer then follow the moral code you profess to believe in, if you’re not a believer at least adopt a positive moral code of behavior and stick to it, consider these thoughts for their own merit, consider the fact they have been a guiding light for a few thousand years; ignored or not.
A few people mentioned the quote, “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” Did you know that is a biblical reference? Mathew 12:25. Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. That is ASUPD right now, you want to deny it, don’t want to hear it, but it is the truth. Proverbs 11:1 A false balance is an abomination to the Lord, but a just weight is his delight. Proverbs 13:23 The fallow ground of the poor would yield much food, but it is swept away through injustice. Proverbs 20:23 Unequal weights are an abomination to the Lord, and false scales are not good. Proverbs 22:1 A good name is to be chosen rather than great riches, and favor is better than silver or gold.
Congratulations, ASUPD, for running out yet another successful, intelligent, and hardworking REAL COP. It is no surprise to any of us that the PD isn’t able to participate in any of these back-to-school alcohol “taskforces”, and instead have to call in outside agencies to patrol our OWN CAMPUS. Insideview, you keep on claiming your sick of being lumped in with all the rest of command staff. Let me ask you what have you done to stick your neck out for ANY of the line level officers? You sat by and did nothing while your fellow third-floor employees ran the department into the ground. Standing by and doing NOTHING about the situation is about as bad as participating. If your so bothered by it, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
Can’t believe no one has mentioned the amazing firearms training unit yet!! You would think with having one range instructor for every two officers, youd have an officers with amazing firearms scores. NOPE. Instead, you have officers struggling to qualify multiple times. Why pay more $$ to firearms guys who don’t TRAIN, instead just judge everyone that is not in their elite group.
CueTheClownMusic this poster, too, was heartbroken to learn earlier this week that another exceptional officer will be leaving the department in the not too distant future. Many of us were, however, not taken aback based on the current toxic climate in the department. At least this very competent, highly-skilled, and decent officer graced the department for eight or nine months. I wish the officer the very best and this was probably the best strategic career move the officer could have made.
Brave Soul, thank you for having the courage and inner fortitude to intervene on behalf of the majority of the members of the ASU PD. You ARE what legends are made of! Again, thank you for putting yourself in the line of fire to achieve what we, the majority of ASU PD members, ultimately want: A threat-free, healthy work environment that is in compliance with ALL laws, polices, and regulations. Good luck and God speed my friend!
One correction to an earlier posting regarding the University of Pennsylvania, where this poster stated that the former president and two of his top-level henchmen were being indicted for covers-ups and failing to follow the laws, policies, and regulations. The institution is actually Penn State University, not the University of Pennsylvania. Sorry University of Pennsylvania but I have to give credit where credit is do!
Naga wrote: Insideview, so what if all of the parties were free and in the clear, does that still excuse the behavior of that former AC or of the chief? Just because all of the dispatchers that were sexually harassed got run off by ac’s hr wife and dispatch lead friend doesn’t mean it never happened. ASU PD sure does love handing out the OT to DPS, want to know how much? Look it up in the ASU Budget book in the library. It’s listed under the ASU PD with a name of a DPS officer and wow is it a pretty penny. There seems to be plenty of money for friends of the chief but not for his own department, odd right?
Insideview it looks like your other reply about IA’s got deleted but here’s my reply for that. I agree with you, not all IA’s are bad, but a overly large amount of them at ASU PD are! Sergeant or up doesn’t like you, the hunt is on to find even the smallest thing to start an IA on to start that paper trail in your file saying that your no good. I also do not think supervisors are responsible for all of the bad things at the department, but they are responsible for a large sum. For example, said former AC who started out in ASU PD patrol, liked to watch couple have sex on campus. How’d he get all the way up to AC position? Same former AC had multiple sexual harassment claims against him? How’d he keep his position? The answer to both is because his supervisor(s) did nothing about it. If those stories are well known, so well known in fact that new hires are told about this, how is it his supervisors “didn’t know anything?”
Different example, PA with multiple excessive use of force papers in his file, can’t control his temper, can’t pass an officer test for 5+ valley agencies including ASU for 3 tests then buddies up with training sgt, gets test answers, passes test and is now an officer with same problems as when he was a PA. How did that happen? His supervisors failed to do their jobs.
Hello, I wanted to give everyone a heads up about the “special training” I attended. Of all the things the department should be doing to fix the problems at our department guess what they’re doing? They spent a lot of good money on more bad ways to retain employees when we need to be making our workplace work, get people to stay because they want to, not because they have to.
I’m sorry to report to the troops, you better lay low guys. All of us, your supervisors, have been being trained in Blue Team Internal Affairs Software. http://www.blueteam.com/
If you thought the large amount of internal affairs issues and discipline paper were absurd before just wait, it’s going to be taken to a whole new level of negative retention. This new system will allow us to create, maintain, and organize negative paper in your files so much more efficiently than in the past. I guess it is a little more than ironic this is coming online as a lot of you guys are trying to leave the department, as past and present employees are posting their gripes on online job forums, as all the negative media attention is hitting ASUPD.
Everyone in the business realizes a whole lot of departments will be hiring come 2015 as they watch PHX siphon off their people and they need quick replacements, lateral cops. Hopefully the department will figure out how to hire, train, and retain people. Anything more constructive than getting everyone mired down in BLUE TEAM Internal Affairs for everything imaginable. Sorry, but it’s not hard to predict.
Don’t think so? So far they’ve done Internal Affairs on our officers for not filling up gas tanks on squad cars at the end of shift, not remembering to complete time cards, not tape recording contacts, and would you believe it, a whole host of issues not covered by policy that fall under the dubious catch all PERCEPTION STANDARD, which includes any whim of anyone up the supervisor chain. There are so many of us here, we outnumber officers and have to do regular patrol work due to the continual quitting of patrol officers over our leadership void.
Our Blue Team program is another department waste of funds that could be spent doing something productive for everyone. Look at the proponents and when was the last time they did something constructive to build this place up? I’m agreeing with some of the original Indeed posts more and more, why? Because it’s the truth and it’s refreshing to hear once in a while. Real cops don’t lie and they don’t like being lied to.
My God, Blue Team software, are you joking? Let’s turn this place into an IA Powerhouse because making it to where people can’t leave is the only way to keep people working here. Let’s drive out more officers because that appears to be working when nobody can get time off due to staffing, when we have BLACK OUT dates where we can’t take time off, lasting for months because of staffing. They keep ignoring the issue because they are the issue.
The department needs reorganization. Take a look at successful police departments, they have leadership, do their officers get paid top dollar, nope. Everyone here knows it’s not about money. It’s all about leadership and morale. The department needs leadership who know how to inspire and mentor people to stay, to grow this department, to make it work.
What else is new the next new thing will be cameras in the toilet or change in locker rooms that have asbestos in the walls, wait……. that actually did happen.
I read through these posts and thoroughly enjoy them. I would hate to have been the person who had to explain to the Chief and AC Hardwhiner how the first amendment works, what the ACLU is, and council them on how to handle this. Having some knowledge of the decision making processes up there, it must have been a pain in the ass.
You have people at every campus, every day checking the blog, reading the new posts and articles, and discussing them. The workplace of our police department hasn’t been entirely bad, there are a lot of good people there, but unfortunately the bad outnumber the good and have rose to positions of authority in rank only.
If they had true authority they wouldn’t constantly work against themselves, lie, scheme, and undermine their own authority. There would be no INDEED, no Integrity report to read about because the issues would have been addressed years ago. I really wonder if the chief has any idea what his underlings have done to the place, but that’s just another lack of leadership issue. With a department this small how the hell do you not know what’s going on.
We need experienced cops leading cops, not politicians who happen to have police officer certification, spent a career puffing their chests out and blowing smoke up everyone’s ass. Quite frankly our police department is too fucked up for it to be an accident, the fact it’s been this way for so long is disgraceful.
It’s about time somebody told the truth around here. Keep up the good fight guys!
Just finished watching the ASU/Utah football game and lo and behold who did I see out on the field at the conclusion of the game? Our illustrious leader, John L. Pickens! You’d think with all the staffing issues and major problems that continue to plague the department, he’d be hunkered down in the “bunker” with the command staff attempting to, at least, figure out how to fix some of the problems afflicting the department.
Nope, instead he’s traipsing about the country spending our tax-dollars hobnobbing with the higher-ups. His arrogance and sense of entitlement reminds me of a third-world dictator who couldn’t care less about the state of affairs back home.
It will, indeed, yes, pun intended, be a sad day if this man is allowed to retire with the full regalia and high-praise from the university leadership for all the good things he did for the university and department. The only thing this man should be retiring to is similar accommodations afforded ex-Detroit Mayor, Kwame Kilpatrick.
Don’t worry OneFlewOverTheCuckoo’sPD, John Pickens will be allowed to retire with full benefits/honors just like his Assistant Chief in crime Allen Clark who is now the Director of Emergency Preparedness. How Clark was allowed to retire with full benefits and not arrested/fired for what he did is beyond me. But hey good news, Clarks continued employment for ASU just keeps him and ASU open to future litigation, something I have have not doubt will happen by his own hand.
This is quite interesting about the Downtown Phoenix campus (DPC). You’ve got two sergeants, one going about pounding his chest declaring how great he is and the other one probably working on the innumerable IAs the department generates.
One of the sergeants at the DPC is notorious for NOT responding to sworn officer calls, but instead has a police aide(s) respond and then later has the gall to criticize the non-sworn(s) about what they should’ve or shouldn’t have done on the call.
Here’s some advice to the sergeant at the DPC: Why don’t you get off your duff and do your job! Sending a police aide(s) on a call that YOU should be responding to is BS! When that police aide(s) gets his/her ass handed to them, you’re going to be up shit creek without a paddle!
Not only that, but someone above those Sgts kind of resembles someone that is very close to your user name oneflewoverthecuckooPD’s lol, AS GOOD AS IT GETS!!! Jack Nickelson is OCD this sort of sounds like someone familiar. HE WANTS HIS EGGS OVEREASY!!!!!RAHHHHHHH. Or I WANT MY IA’s overeasy, IA’s are like f’n box of chocolates there you never know what the hell you’ll get. Or better yet lets have officers spy on the Police Aides! Remember folks if you mouth off in the academy to bigger men in the shower just stop drop and go into the fetal position it may save your life, it’s almost as useful as duck and cover!
OneFlewOverTheCuckoo’sPD. I heard what you’re talking about. You’re talking about how the downtown campus Sergeants SPAM and Staypuffthompson are lazy sacks of shit who endanger non sworn, non trained, unarmed police aides by sending them to officer calls. They sit in the office like a rock and don’t respond to their calls. No wonder staffing is dropping off there too.
More than one of the police aides told me how SPAM wouldn’t even show up to the campus, she was working from home in Queen Creek. When she did show up she didn’t change into uniform. That’s easy to do when all your friends are your bosses. Such an obvious disregard for ethics is a corruption plain and simple.
[…] The Original indeed.com Postings […]
Wow. I was thinking about applying at ASU PD because I saw a job posting for officer, but then Googled around for a few seconds. That place sounds like a frigging zoo! What in the hell is going on there!?? ASU PD officers are suing their own dept for corruption and employees have this blog going. The administration seems like a joke.
That’s a great decision! Take a good look at all the city agencies hiring for officers. Keep applying to all, don’t get hung up on a few, and don’t give up! Most pay significantly more than the ASU Police Department, but money isn’t everything. They also offer much more opportunity, prestige, and job satisfaction.
In one month ASU Police Department had 6 officers quit because the overlapping tiers of idiotic management make it a virtual nightmare to work there. A scumbag clique member who just made Sgt at ASUPD quit to become an officer for Tempe PD!
They could pay officers 100k and they’d still leave ASUPD because it’s a brass plated shit hole. Stress affects your health, it is deadly. Save your life, save your career, and never apply to a job that’s been open hiring for years and never stops. NOT A GOOD SIGN!